CTZCC.COM

[PhrogZ46]

I believe euro cars also came equipped with a higher quality harmonic damper, and their tail lenses had amber for the turn signals unlike our completely red ones in the states.

[Carl Beck]

I wonder if we can find a part number for a Euro damper.

I only have ASSY-PULLEY WITH DAMPER FOR COOLER, and ASSY-PULLEY WITH DAMPER. I'm guessing that "FOR COOLER" means A/C.

Other than having the crank bolt back out - when not properly torqued when the Port of Dealer Installed A/C systems were added - - I've never really heard that there was any problem with the L24/L26 dampers here or in Europe.

I do see a couple of degreed dampers in the Sports Option Catalogs, but they are easy to identify and look quite different than the stock dampers.


FWIW,
Carl B.

[Frank T]

Is it even fair to really call them 'harmonic dampers'?

Just a thought, but I associate that term with the externally-balanced American V8s, while the L-series engines were pretty well internally balanced at birth.

Do they really NEED external balancing? Just asking.

[Carl Beck]

Frank T wrote:

Is it even fair to really call them 'harmonic dampers'? ....snipped.. Do they really NEED external balancing? Just asking.

Hi Frank:
The short answer is "yes". On the L24/26/28's it is a harmonic damper - not an external balancer.

On the very early engines - from memory I think it was L24-3605 {I'd have to look it up}, Nissan did not put enough counter weights on the cranks to counter balance the rotational mass of the entire assembly at higher RPM's. So as they spun up past 6000 RPM the cranks would wobble so much that they would allow the flywheels to hit the engine block and that in turn would destroy the clutch assemblies bolted to them. Once the cause of that problem was identified, Nissan developed a new crank with more counterweights.. Nonetheless you still need that harmonic damper on the front end of the crank to dissipate the energy of the harmonic frequencies generated as well.

FWIW,
Carl B.

[PhrogZ46]

Frank T wrote:

Do they really NEED external balancing? Just asking.

EVERY engine should have a harmonic damper/balancer. Especially ones like the straight 6. The main purpose of it is not external balancing like an american V engine, its to dampen crankshaft vibrations (harmonics). At rpm the crankshaft actually flexes with each up and down movement of the pistons at high frequency. If the crank reaches its "natural" frequency, it can vibrate like a tuning fork. If these are not dampened by the pulley, the crank can eventually generate hairline cracks, or break in half.
_________________

[Frank T]

Well, that might have been what happened to three of my five Austin Healey 100-4s. The A-90 engines in them had only a rudimentary pulley (rather than a good balancer) and three of my crankshafts broke in exactly the same spot ~ all three while downshifting.

I once found a dead 100-4 in a junkyard, bought the engine and pulled it apart there on-site, only to find that IT TOO had a broken crank, exactly where all mine had split.

[Kathy & Rick]

Interesting thread; I have never personally seen a crank to have
hairline crack(s) or to be fully fractured. But I can understand how it
could happen.

Not to get away from the topic, but on a related note, one of my 18-
wheeler drivers, Gary Giguere, had a built up big block, I think a 502"
with nitrous, in a Chevelle. After a hard acceleration run, the thing
ran so poorly that he diddled around with everything he could think of
to get it to run smoothly, but nothing worked. So he pulled the engine
and at the speed shop it was determined that the crank had TWISTED!

I had never heard of such a thing before, but Gary wasn't a BSer. I
suppose with enough torque, a strong enough drive train, and enough
hookup at the rear wheels it could happen, and apparently did. Nor-
mally I would expect a wheelstand out of such a combination, but I
have been around long enough to have seen other strange things
happen that no one would ever EXPECT or SUSPECT.

FWIW, ~Rick~

[Frank T]

Well, poor King ~ he started out asking about early badges on the Z car under Body/Styling/Appearance, and we sort of walked away with his Thread Not sure how we got onto Austin Healy and 504 Chevy crankshafts from there, but one of those MONITOR dudes will probably step in here soon and smack us all upside the head

But something Phrog said is probably important (or at least discussion worthy) ~ the emblems themselves changed over time, not only from solid chrome "Z"s to white "Z"s, but also from metal, to plastic and eventually (on the ZX cars) to rubber.

Ever try to pry the emblems off an old ZX fender? They look solid but they aren't. They're some sort of weird rubber and a few years (decades) of sun and water decompose them so they crumble up into cookie dough when you try to remove them.

[Kathy & Rick]

Never knew about the rubber emblems on the ZX, Frank. That
would have been "after my time." I wonder if it was for reasons
of economizing in production cost? Or whether, as you said, when
they are removed, they crumble; that sounds like a good "repair
partZ revenue generator" to me! Or maybe a little of each? In
any case, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ seems to be the issue.
~Rick~

[Reverend]

Quote:

Hi Reverend: If we are talking about Euro Spec and US Spec. Datsun 240Z/260Z's - I'd be interested in knowing more about the many differences between the two. As I understand it there were few differences. 1. 5spd with 3.9 rear end - vs - 4spd with 3.36 rear end. Over-all gearing in top gear is about the same. 2. Spring rate were about 10% stiffer on the Euro Spec. cars. 3. Some Countries had different tail/stop light colors required What else am I missing?

Well, actually there were no rear quarter lights at all in euro spec (or at least in Finn spec 240z's) I mean that little light, that is above bumpers in both sides. Also there were small lights (probably turn lights) over the front bumper.
Shift knob was a bit different (im looking old finnish car magazine from 72), more like ball looking and interior colours were usually not the normal black but either white or butterscotch brown. Those seem to be bit more rare colours..? And of course, no smog equipment or air conditioning. In rear wheels there were "DATSUN" mudguards. I think there is lot of other small things i dont know, and i bet there is few that knows, cause there is only like 2 dozen 240z's ever imported here.

[kingofapes]

loads of interesting info here.. and I don't mind going off topic.. my life's pretty much off topic anyway.
been too buZy to comment much but hope to be back soon. as for my Z.. still waiting for the shipping company return the car's papers.. without them nothing is going to happen..

[Frank T]

OK King, sorry to have taken so long for this, but I had to drive around to different places to shoot pictures of different Zs.

Here are some examples of 240, 260 and 280 badges. They actually differed between years.

This does NOT include the Fairlady RHD cars, or those from any other country ~ USA only, to best of my knowledge (but Carl Beck or Jim Frederick or John Taddonio would be better sources).

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IMG_0018.JPG
Description:	The first 16,000 Zs (Oct69-Feb71) had vented hatches. Vents then moved to side pillars.
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IMG_0003.JPG
Description:	The first 528 (I think) 240Zs (1969 only) had CHROME "Z"s on the 'wings'. This pillar badge was not a vent. Later 1970 "Z"s were white. This entire badge is chrome, and very rare.
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IMG_0017.JPG
Description:	The white "Z" of my Apr/70 240Z. This badge is often called the 'wings'. Only 1969/70 cars had "wings". Early letter "Z" was chrome, later was white. The "240" is chrome, the "Z" is white.
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IMG_0016.JPG
Description:	Earliest 240Z nose badge. This one might have been replaced, since the hood was damaged and either replaced or repaired.
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IMG_0004.JPG
Description:	Earliest 240Z fender block letter badge
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IMG_0002.JPG
Description:	Earliest 240Z rear hatch badge and script
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IMG_0009.JPG
Description:	260Z nose badge
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IMG_0007.JPG
Description:	This 260Z fender badge has an alarm key hiding in it!
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IMG_0005.JPG
Description:	260Z pillar badge, also acting as an air vent
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IMG_0006.JPG
Description:	The proper 260Z rear hatch badges
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IMG_0015.JPG
Description:	The 280Z pillar badge, which also acts as an airvent.
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IMG_0014.JPG
Description:	The 280Z nose badge
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IMG_0011.JPG
Description:	The 280Z fender badge
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IMG_0010.JPG
Description:	Here's an example of the 280Z rear hatch badge and script.
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[Kathy & Rick]

Nice job, Frank, complete with pictures to illustrate! I liked that.

For our friendZ who are newer to Z carZ, I would like to add a little
info for amplification. There was no air conditioning available on the
Z car for quite awhile; I think it first came in with the 280-Z, I will
have to check. Aftermarket air conditioning systems could be bought
and installed by the dealer, but I'm not sure how early that began.
In my experience it was 1972, but it could have been earlier elsewhere.

The Series 1 240-Z (VIN #00013 to about 21000) had what was called
"flow-thru ventilation." The fresh air coming in the center vent and
the "eyeballs" as we called them, at either end of the dash, and also
via the open windows, had to have somewhere to escape after entering
the car. The two vents on the Series 1 hatch accomplished this, but
unfortunately, the swirl pattern at the rear of the car could also bring
exhaust fumes into the car via the vents and/or the hatch gasket.

So in late Jan 1971 a design change was introduced to correct this
deficiency. The flow-thru air outlets were moved to the "C-pillar" by
punching holes in the interior trim behind the quarter window and
ducting the flow out the newly-introduced exit vent several inches
behind the quarter window on each side of the car where the 240-Z
"wings" had been. So as not to have a strange-looking hole on the
C-pillar (sometimes called the "sail panel"), each outlet was covered
with a round "Z" badge. The round badge did not fit flush with the panel,
but was designed to allow air to flow out from behind it as the air exited
the cabin.

The new design permitted eliminating the hatch vents while ending
the successful run of the Series 1 Z. The solution must have been
deemed to have worked very well, because it lasted through the
remaining years of S-30 production (-1978), and maybe even beyond.

All Z Best,..................................Kathy & Rick
_________________
1969 OLD.Z (#00013 10/69) since 8/30/76
1969 ITSA.Z (#00171 11/69) since 8/24/73
1970 ZEE-70 (#06289 6/70) original owner
1971 PL-510 2dr (160-Z) since 12/31/75
1971 (#19851 1/71) sold
1972 (#86105 5/72) 4partZ
1979 (#125717 12/7 now off trailer

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:
Good pictures Frank...

Some more emblem trivia:

Flow-through Ventilation:
Fresh air entered the cabin via both the dash vents and the vents on the kick panels. It was primarily intended to let fresh air flow though the cabin with the side windows up - thus eliminating the wind nose and buffitting you get with the windows down.

It can be interesting to experiment with these older Z's today - if you get exhaust gases leaking into the cabin area - rolling the windows down will actually increase the exhaust gas odor. That is because the airflow past the windows when the car is moving actually lowers the cabin pressure "relative" to the high pressure area right behind the car. Somewhat like wind blowing over the top of a chimney actually helps suck the smoke up and out.

Rolling the windows up and opening all vents of the fresh air ventilation system on the other hand will increase cabin pressure "relative" to the high pressure area behind the car. That is because the fresh air ventilation systems has it's air intakes at both the front of the car and directly under the cowl panel. So more air can be forced into the cabin, than the vents will allow to escape, and thus the pressure in the cabin is raised.


The "Vented Z" Emblems:
As you can see in the picture that Frank Posted - there are vents surrounding the little "Z" in the center. Some people call this the "vented Z". There are actually a "right" and "left" side vented Z emblem. They do fit flush with the body at the front. The forward side of the emblem fits flush with the body so that the airflow past the car has to go over the top of the vented Z. The top, bottom and rearward facing sides of the emblem do have "rectangular cutouts" to allow cabin air to exit, in addition to the vents surrounding the "Z" itself. If you install the vented Z emblems on the wrong side - they don't work as well and you can get water forced into the cabin.

The rear hatch vents on the Series I cars:
In addition to the exhaust gases - in colder climates as rain/snow and ice formed on the rear hatch glass.. turning the rear window defroster on would melt it. The problem was as that heated water ran down the rear hatch, it would run into the vents which were not heated.. and it would refreeze there, thus plugging the fresh air vents.

FWIW,
Carl B.