For those of you unaware, the Healthcare bill just passed the House 219:212.
This is a major historical event, that many of us are unlikely to see another of the same size and importance.

I am beyond angry at this point, and can not even begin to describe how annoyed I am with every single person who voted for it, as well as the people who support this ridiculous, debt increasing, piece of trash that is the Healthcare bill.

Who honestly thinks that the government can control healthcare when they aren't even close to being in control of Medicare.

/rant.

Time for you guys to discuss.

Agreed. And as someone who's pursuing a degree in the medical field, I couldn't be more unhappy.

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-Chris

Oh, boy ~ I am SO tempted to open a Biblical discussion here about man trying to govern himself, when God told us we would all fail at it, no matter how hard or how long we tried. But then I would have to look up all the Scriptures which say that all government is on HIS shoulders, and because we turned away from His rule, man will flounder until the end of days.

So I won't.

(But I'm thinking it).

And nothing any of MAN'S governments ever do will ever come to anything, no matter how hard we try. And it will ALL be wiped out in the end, when He takes it back over.

Adam and Eve had it made. They only had ONE LAW to obey, and they blew it. We've been trying to rule ourselves ever since, in perpetual frustration.

Hmmm…in my experience, political discussion + car forum doesn’t work very well. I come to a place like this to relax, learn, and laugh, not to raise my blood pressure….but maybe that’s just me.

Most of the population forms opinions based on the meanderings of radio show hosts and pundits…regardless of whether those 'personalities' have their facts correctly researched or not….that’s scary stuff. I think if one reads through an entire bill, from cover to cover, then they are educated enough to form a valid, respectable opinion on the issue.

Cheers,
Colin

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Colin F. Gentle
1970 Datsun 240z #11137

Well first, I agree with Colin. Probably not the best place to discuss politics. That being said, I can't help but chime in. Yes, the government is really bad at managing programs of any kind. But as someone who has always had the benefit of good healthcare coverage, I feel that we have a responsibility as a civilized nation to cover those who don't. The poor, the children, the unemployed and others. Also, annual double digit healthcare cost increases are out of control and a significant burden on the average family. A nation of haves and have-nots is not good for any of us and sows resentment and extremism. The government also manages our nation's highway system yet we don't say that because they are terribly inefficient that they shouldn't do so. While the plan may be flawed I am glad we are finally tackling this problem that has plaqued us for decades.

Sorry Colin! I had to at least get one opposing view registered.

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Ross Williams
1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition 38k Original Miles

It's plain to see , the less gov. power the better. Goverment healthcare will open many doors most supporters don't want to admit. You don't have to read the bill to see what their planning. Pelosi quoted the Declaration of Independence, " that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. " Wow! She's so patriotic. Well the founding fathers also stated many times through out their lives we should fear goverment control. Is'nt that what they faught to get away from. Hey, Happy tax increases! Oh wait ,I don't make more than 250k. RIGHT! haha!

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. - Thomas Jefferson

Joe

I feel a headache coming on.....

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Phil
1981 280zxt - Now in the care my son!
2014 370Z Sports Touring Roadster

I think I've been giving my wife one. Oh well!

We'll see if the government can't run health care, right now we don't know. We do know that the system we have now is the laughingstock of the civilized world. We spend twice as much money per capita than any other country and our health care system is ranked 37th, right behind Latvia. We are the ONLY industrialized nation in the world that doesn't have universal health care. And without intervention, the situation was getting worse and worse. We are the wealthiest nation in the world and we let thousands of our citizens, including children, die from a lack of health care.The situation is shameful and wasteful and the only beneficiaries of it are private insurance companies. These companies do not exist to provide health care, they exist in order to skim billions of dollars FROM the health care system into their own useless non-productive laps. They pay billions of dollars to Washington lobbyists while denying coverage to cancer patients and diabetic children. They make it impossible for Americans to start small businesses on their own or to change jobs if they are unhappy. Something had to be done, and everybody has known something had to be done for decades. The Republicans had their chance for 8 years and didn't even try.
Those of you who are angry should indeed be. You have been ripped off for decades by insurance companies. If you have insurance now you are paying twice as much for health care than you need to.That money is not going to quality of care,or to doctors, or to hospitals. It's going to a thieving monopolistic "industry" that in fact produces NOTHING. It's funny how you will get all upset about a welfare mother receiving 13 grand a year in benefits so she can provide minimal care for a child but you defend an "industry" that also produces nothing but skims billions in order to buy yachts for the children of the rich.

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71 on a rotisserie, two more in pieces in my shed...and a 69 1600 waiting for me to get to it

Thanks Mark. So far I've been sorely in the minority on this forum topic! I was thinking I was going to need to step down as Prez if this trouncing continued. I am one of the people that will be paying more in the way of taxes related to this bill. And while I don't like paying taxes, I am happy to do it if it fixes the lack of healthcare for millions of others. I know the plan has it's warts but I hope it succeeds in some modified fashion.

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Ross Williams
1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition 38k Original Miles

I understand that Healthcare needs reform, I am not saying that it doesn't. I just feel like spending trillions of dollars on National Healthcare while in a financial downturn is not the smartest thing to do. On top of that, before even thinking about starting a new government program, the government should fix the problems it already has under the belt; Social Security, Welfare, Medicare, etc.

I don't mind paying for people who need healthcare like the elderly of very sick people who are currently being denied healthcare coverage. But I do mind it when I'm going to be paying out the WAZOOO for the rest of my life so some highschool dropouts who refuse to get a job and instead just collect a Welfare check every month can go and get free healthcare and benefits while my taxes continue to get increased and I reap none of the benefits.
As many of you know, a 250k salary in this country is considered high, but when you consider where we live and the cost of living in the North East, and in Fairfield county, it really isn't all that much, I mean 60k off the money is gone to income tax right off the bat. I don't believe its fair that the top 5% of the population pay the majority of the taxes, already, and now are going to be given the burden of paying for a nation's healthcare system.

Just my $.02.

I guess my view of nationalized health care has been tainted by the experiences of my wife's family, who live in Canada. Here are few personal examples.

My wife and I sponsored my brother in law and his family as US citizens several years ago so they could move from Ottawa to LA. He was chief of vascular surgery at major hospitals in Ottawa and Vancouver and routinely toured the US/Canadian lecture circuit. He felt limited in what he could accomplish as a vascular surgeon under their health care system.

It took over three months and a 200 mile trip to the "local / centralized" cat scan facility in Quebec before my father in law could get a cat scan of his head after he had fallen. This was considered the normal wait time on the cat scan waiting list. He never did recover from the hemorrhage and would probably still be alive today if he lived in the US or been tested earlier.

My brother in law suffered from what appeared to be a heart related illness over the winter. However, again, it took several months on a waiting list before he was finally administered a stress test.

Certainly there is tremendous need for improvement in our system. Providing insurance to the uninsured would certainly benefit millions of people. However I hope it does not diminish the care that we have now. I sure hope we can do better then the Canadian system!

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Phil
1981 280zxt - Now in the care my son!
2014 370Z Sports Touring Roadster

I haven't read the Bill (which has now become a law), so please tell me:

Do illegal aliens get full medical coverage under this Act? And if so, do they EVER have to reimburse us? Or get deported once discovered?

Well I don't Vote so you can't blame me. I'm a firm believer that our votes don't count one bit, they just brain washed us into thinking so. They all ready know what they want, and will get what they want. We're also brain washed into thinkin our diplomatic society is the best in the world, well I'm not to sure about that anymore. There are way to many people with no common sense running the show, but when it comes to money in there pocket, O they know how to manipulate that for sure. Then there are the ones that soak the system and make it even worse. So us hard workin, good folks pay for all this. Then the corporations that get away with murder. etc..... That's my view on politics. I'm not unpatriotic, I love my fellow American people, (at least the ones that work for a living,) and people in general, and not religious, but have a love for God. So there, that's how much I care, it will never change for the better, but just get worse, so enjoy life the best you can, and drive your Z cars as much as you can ..............................................because they will someday take that away from us too.