https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... tid=dXMIcH

This one is for you Frank, you introduced me to these in the off topic forum.

For sale in Pa. It's only money.....

Jay

NO JOKE! I've wanted one of these since I was about 16. I loved the ugly-duckling grille which looked like a catfish giving birth, and lusted over Ed Turner's snarling little 2.5L ohv Hemi V8 with twin "cross-flow" SU side-draughs. It made about 140bhp (my Healey Hundreds were 2.5L pushrod engines with twin SUs too, but made only 90bhp) and the Daimler's performance was the rough equivalent of the Datsun 240Z 10 years later.

The car was fiberglass over a very rigid ladder frame. Body flex during high-speed turns could make the outside door fly open or the windscreen crack. Since seatbelts (or "lap straps") weren't required equipment in the early 1960s, passengers could possibly take flight out of the car in hard left turns, and THE DRIVERS THEMSELVES could come out in hard right turns!

Daimler originally marketed the car as the Dart, but lawsuits by Dodge stopped that (they already had a Dart) and this car became the SP250. I recall in 1964 I saw an early one (a real Dart, probably a late '50s model) at Syracuse University with a For Sale sign on it. Getting all excited I asked the 40s-something owner how much he wanted for it. He looked 16-year-old-me over with obvious disgust and firmly pronounced, "Two THOUsand" (about $20k today) and walked away without even waiting to discuss it with me.

All early fiberglass cars of that era (Lotus, Corvette, Avanti, Jensen, Marcos, TVR, Kaiser- Darin, Devon, Bizzarrini, and hundreds of "kit cars") had issues with 'glass wear, paint spidering, and electrical grounds. Daimler was owned (and sold) by several companies during its brief lifetime, and the nagging little problems with the Dart/SP-250 led to its demise in the mid-'60s. The gutsy little engine, however, found its way into several later Jaguar sedans and got copied by Rover at least once.

I don't know why this advert is headlined about a "Ferrari" and I really don't care; this car is the Daimler I always lusted over. I've wanted one for over half a century. You must be psychic.

Merry Christmas, Jay.

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1970 240Z

Merry Christmas to you Frank!

They are neat cars, I get it. It's kind of like an MG or Sunbeam on steroids. As soon as I found this ad I copied the link to share here, had to make sure you saw it!

Jay

Great write up on this vehicle Frank. But I guess "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" in this case.

Those fish mouthed Daimlers were, at least to me, one of the most butt ugly poorly made cars ever made. Glad you never got a chance to waste $2K on that fish. Obviously, your taste or maybe your eyesight has improved over the years .

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner

hahaha! You're not alone in that estimation, PreZ: I think it might have been at the Earle's Court Motor Show that they created a brand-new category especially for this car.
They unanimously voted it the ugliest car in-show.

They soon fixed the pop-open doors by installing better door locks, but the fiberglass still wears at the hard fittings with the frame and suspension. The poor electrical grounds were never resolved and, as with almost all fiberglass bodied cars, every electrical lamp, motor, or appliance requires a double-wire system; one to put power to the device, and another to return it to ground.

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1970 240Z

Tell us how you really feel John.

I agree that the front looks weird, the grill doesn't work for me either. But the rest of the car looks as good as any old British roadsters do to me. The small V8 with a manual gearbox is intriguing, probably sounds great too.

Build quality I couldn't tell you, but from what you are saying and Frank is also saying, sounds terrible. Electrical problems..... Again British roadsters?

Are these really any worse than an old MG or Triumph? With the fiberglass body there is less surface area to rust into oblivion..... Isn't that a plus?

Jay

The SP250 was spacious compared to the Brit roadsters of the day. They might have cost twice as much, but you got more than twice the car for the money.
Here's Jay Leno trying to destroy his Dart by running it without water. Be sure to watch on a nice hi-resolution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpzudBhWap0

I started it @ about 13:00 minutes just to get past his dialogue.

Tell me that doesn't sound better than an MG or TR? This discussion has made me want one even more now.

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1970 240Z

And Jay, about the British sports cars of that era:

Most of those cars I'm familiar with had rawthah...."unusual" electrical systems compared to what we're used to today.

First, they were mostly 6-volt systems. Second, they were mostly all Positive Earth (as opposed to Negative Ground), and Third, most of the different car companies seemed to share the same instruments and electrical supply boxes.

The leading electrical parts suppliers for British cars during the '50s and '60s were Smith and VDO (gauges), and Lucas (roadlamps, switches, generators, regulators, starters and electrical terminals). There were others, but these three companies dominated the supply chain for almost all the Brit cars during those years. Lucas was commonly referred to as the "Prince of Darkness". Having owned several Healeys and an MGB, I can attest that such a sarcastic moniker was NOT undeserved. You could do everything right and still instantly find yrslf driving in the dark without so much as a flicker of warning.

(Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas refrigerators)

Add to that formula the complication of fiberglass bodies which cannot be used as electrical grounds, and you are dealing with a dual-wire system to each lamp; a power wire TO each tail lamp, then another ground wire BACK to the fuse bar at the front end of the car. And most of those wires were cloth-bound. Rubbing against the same part of the frame or body over the miles eventually wore thru the fabric and allowed opens, shorts, and grounds. Carrying one or two boxes of spare fuses and a roll of sticky cloth electrical tape were "Mission-Essential" requirements. Smart owners spent a day taping over the wires on their NEW car anywhere they rested against the body or frame, even before their first roadtrip.

Certain companies began mounting their fuse box in a conspicuous and completely accessible location, with clear diagrams and courtesy spare fuse holders nearby, just because they knew you were going to spend an inordinate amount of time (in the dark) (in the rain) (in your dress clothes) searching for blown fuses under the bonnet of your new British sports car.

But having said all that, ownership of a Brit roadster as a teenager in the '50s or '60s was a wonderful life experience. It was almost as open as a motorcycle, lower than anything else on the road (you could literally drag your knuckles on the road from a Triumph), faster than it should have been, and left you covered in road dirt or soaked in rain when you reached your destination. But the thrill of being that much in control of a low, lightweight, responsive road car with snarling exhaust, squeaking brakes, humming spokes and screaming tires at 90mph with no seat belts, left your hands trembling from adrenalin, your eyes wide and a wicked smile you couldn't wipe off. You could hear and SMELL the engine, cry with the exhaust note up around 3500rpm, and feel the wind scream past your ears. You walked up to your girlfriend's front door looking BACK at your car.

During that brief time in your life when you were sure you would live forever and couldn't die, there was no better instrument in all the world than an Open-Two-Seater British sportscar to make your life worthwhile via internal combustion and wind in the face.

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1970 240Z

Not to mention space "out back" for Rudolph!
Shotgun over your shoulder...
Who needs an SUV...
Colin
the older one
1970 Datsun 240Z #2483 - 3/70

I'll take that gorgeous TR3 over that fish mouthed kit car any day and it even makes it's driver look more dashingly handsome than he already is!

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner

Yes...and he's smarter than he looks, too.

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1970 240Z

That's a gorgeous TR3! The color is perfect too....is that the original shade?

Frank, in one comment you've made me long for my teenage years and want a British roadster at the same time. And the warm beer joke made me laugh out loud here when I read it.

Jay

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1970 240Z

Jay, the original color was Powder Blue, this color is called Cotswold Blue, a color that was used on very early TR's and Jags.

Frank, the passenger in the Triumph ad has what appears to be a 12 Gauge Shotgun casually draped over his shoulder. How far down the road do you think those two would get today?
Not to mention Rudolph hanging off the luggage rack, that would open a whole can of worms!

Colin
the older one
1970 Datsun 240Z #2483 3/70

In the '50s and '60s it was commonplace to see someone with a deer (or two) strapped over the fender(s) of his fat-fendered Ford pickup or Buick Roadmaster. They would pull into roadside diners or gas stations with blood still dripping off the animal, and small crowds of congratulatory citizens would gather around to admire AND PET his next holiday meal. They would ask all the details about the kill, and ask to see the rifle or shotgun he used to slay it with...and some of them even petted THAT. Nobody was gunshy back then, and boys learned to shoot a variety of firearms as a rite of passage into manhood. It was part of becoming a real 'Murican.

I once saw a big Buick sedan with 4 men in it and THREE (3) deer strapped to the outside of the car; one on either front fender, facing opposite directions across the hood, and the third strapped upright, like it was standing, along the entire right side of the car. Both passenger side doors were blocked and everybody had to climb out the driver's side. Passengers couldn't see out their windows.

I'm trying hard to identify that dark thing in the TR3 as a firearm. Looks like it might be some sort of a belt or strap to me...? Not enough detail to tell from here.

But today people would call Homeland Security and report this scene. Schools would be locked-down within a 10-mile radius, and the mainstream media news would call them "heavily armed killers" and describe the "torrents of fresh blood" dripping down their vehicle. The very best the two hunters could reasonably hope for would be misdemeanor tickets for Disturbing the Peace, and having all their firearms confiscated in the car and at home. Their companies would fire them and Mothers Against Dead Animals would protest outside their houses for weeks.

Our world has gone nuts in two short decades.

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1970 240Z