So the very late-year 260 is actually a 280 body with the L26 in it?

I wonder how much weight difference there would have been btwn a very early 260 and a very late 260?

If the later cars were heavier and they both used the same L26 engine, the last 260 cars would have been slower than the earlier 260 cars!

We have (17) 260Zs in this Club ~ we should ask each owner to report the weight and manufacture date stamped on his car's build plate. Could be interesting!

Sure do, John! One more subtlety: Addressing the ".....1970-73
240Z" above, I know all about the debate on whether there were any
1969's or not. All I can do is read my title!

(Carl has shared elsewhere, much better than I could, how the Japan-
ese model year aligned with the calendar year.) Consequently some
dealers registered using the Japanese system and others the Amer-
ican system, which accounts for some really egregious variances
until finally for the 1972 model year, consistency between the two
systems finally reigned. Everything from 9/72 on was a '72.
Did I get this right, Carl?

~Rick~

_________________
All Z Best,.......Kathy & Rick

1969 Z.CAR (#00013 10/69) 8/30/76
1969 ITSA.Z (#00171 11/69) 8/24/73
1970 OLD.Z (#06289 6/70) original owner
1971 510 2dr since 12/31/75
1969 1600 rdstr (our 160-Z)
1971 (#19851 1/71) sold
1975 75.Z (#01343 1/75)

Very interesting details, Carl! the comparison of production numbers with the american manufacturers was especially intriguing. Assume that Nissan had sold 600000 240z's a year.. what would be the impact on how these cars are seen today.. We maybe lucky in a way that not more were sold.. dunno but interesting stuff anyway

I'll check mine as soon as I get home tonight..
also would be great to be able to make a direct comparison between an early 260 and a late one.. I maybe in the position to do it this summer as I might meet up with the other guy who has a 2 seater 260 in France (it really may just be 2 of these in the whole country!) although I'm not sure if his is an early or late 260. will find out. and by comparison I mean to see what differences there are in the chassis etc if visible at all.

Hi Frank:
Yes - what we call the late year 260Z, was actually supposed to be the begining of the 280Z. But no L28E's were certified in time.



We'd have to look it up - but off the top of my head, it was about 175 lbs. Part of that was the reinforced body mounts for the bumpers, part of it was additional heat/sound insulation and of course the bumper themselves.



Just a bit..



Yes - I'd like to see what we find.

From what I've gathered so far RLS30 00006 is the lowest production VIN starting in 7/73 and RLS30 045738 is the highest VIN for the 240Z Bodied 260Z's.

When the 280Z bodied 260Z's started production Nissan advanced the VIN sequence - restarting it at 060001. RLS30 060619 is the lowest found and with a production date of 9/74 and the highest VIN is RLS30 069819 with a production date of 12/74

Then the real 280Z's started production in late Dec. 74 - and the VIN sequence went back to "H"LS30 200001.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Hi Rick:
HLS30 00020 was also sold/titled as a 1969 Datsun Cpe. 2dr.



Yes - but I think you really meant from 9/71 on was a 72, until the 73 Model Year 240Z's started production in 8/72 and Nissan advanced the VIN sequence to start at HLS30 120001.

By The Way - some trivia:
HLS30 00492 - one of the first 20 Z's to arrive in L.A. in Jan. 1970 went to BRE -it was the #46 240Z that John Morton drove. John saved the data plate from the engine compartment in his tool box.

HLS30 120031 was owned by Bob Bondurant -it was one of the OMS Pace Cars, then used for Bob's school.

RLS30 00006 also went to Bob. It was ran at Daytona in 74

RLS30 00020 was built in 7/73 and is owned by Cindy Unser {Bobby's Daughter - it was the OMS Pace Car for 74. It was given to Bobby for winning the USAC California 500 that year.

FWIW,
Carl B.

The most visible difference besides the bumpers - are the finisher panels below the front bumper. The center finisher panel on the 240Z body runs straight across from the Left to the Right side. The finisher on the 280Z body curves down - as Nissan increased the area of the opening below the bumper - to match the larger 280Z radiiator.

The 280Z body as sold as the 260Z outside the US after 1975 - was known as an S31. The S31 did not have all ther reinforcing steel needed to meet the US 5mph impact standard, nor did they carry the large US bumpers.

So the S31's were lighter than the cars sold in the US.. and with a non-emissions L26 performance was pretty good. Also most countries outside the US also continued to use Leaded Gasoline... so could run higher compression.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Our Australian members claim they never got the 260Z at all ~ production just jumped from 240 to 280. Too bad, because they wouldn't have needed the pollution control junk down under, and a 260 would have eaten most of the 240s there.

But back to badges ~ King, are you interested in the Japanese or British Fairlady versions of the 260 badges, too?

oh yes of course! it would be nice to know what the differences were especially since it's quite possible to come across badges for sale that may be from the UK. I guess the japanese models are easy to spot for the fact that they were called fairlady.

and I also find it amazing that sometimes the 260 has a certain reputation due to the pollution control devices, even though most 260s I guess today don't have those things in them any more and I find the car - from my little experience so far - amazingly entertaining. While it must be nice to own an original 240z I don't see any reason to turn away from a good 260 that has the emission junk taken off. it's such a great car!

As Carl states, it is certain that some 1969 build cars were in fact sold and titled as "1969". Regardless, I believe the 240Z was intended to be a "1970" model by Nissan. The early demand for the car must have stunned Nissan Japan!

The whole manufacture date/title date subject could fill another thread!

_________________
John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester

Hi Frank:
I believe that they are mistaken. Australia did get the 260Z from 74 through 78. They never received the 280Z it was sold in North America only. Australia did receive the 280ZX starting with the 1979 Model Year.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Thanks Carl ~ it might actually be ME who is mistaken, since I was trying to quote something our Aussie member said more than a year ago. I was relying on memory without researching his original post.

I know he said they skipped over ONE of the models down there.

Jarno, I remember the original 260 when it came out. My own 240 was a few years old by then, but still functional and hotter than most other cars of the day.

I had become used to beating newer 240Zs with my old 1970 240Z, due to the lighter weight and original hi-compression head, better exhaust system, etc. Then along came the 260.

They were heavier than my 1970 240, and had less 'advertiZed' horsepower. So my car beat them in nearly every category up to about 70mph. But then the bigger cubes of the 260 overcame my earlier advantages and they simply walked away from me with a wonderful roar. It seemed like they were hampered at lower speeds, but starting about 70mph they just dominated me.

When the fuel-injected 280 came out, they were even harder to beat and my advantages only lasted up to about 60mph.

I have ridden in each model. I consider the 280 very posh and quiet, more like a heavy GT car than a lightweight sportscar. I consider the lightweight 240 a noisy, gear-whining, thrash-about true sportscar. The 260 is a great compromiZe between the two.

i don't know Frank my 280Z feels pretty sporty in comparison to the 280zx now that is more of a GT car. we are talking stock right? i know my car isn't posh and quiet. but Frank you know that. i do still need a ride in your 240Z.

Frank, you're far more experienced and luckier than me having had 240z's and driven them as new or almost new (rezpect dude!), and I believe every word you say. what you're saying basically goes for what the cars were like when they came from the factory, right? 260 being heavier largely due to the bumpers, and then suffering from the pollution equipment in many ways (also weight wise). If you were to take a brand new 240 and a 260, replace the heavy bumper combination in the 260 with 240 bumpers, and get rid of the emission system all together, what would that difference be then? would the 260 still be clearly slower from 0? or would it be close to the 240 even from 0-70? basically to me it would seem logical that they would be very close as in Europe the 260 wasn't ruined by any pollution equipment or heavy bumpers, and it had advertiZed 160 bhp (compared to 150 in 240), so weight wise quite similar, and in fact 260 had more power.

anyway I guess what I'm saying is many 260's today don't have the emission junk in them, have lighter bumpers and better carbs than the original ones, and would probably therefore be worthy of much better reputation than they have due to those issues mentioned here.

also goes without saying I'm hugely in love with and proud of my 260 with that head that increases CR, have a good carb, header and exhaust...

yeah man my 260's not a pussy either. the roar in the tunnels on an italian autostrada definitely got some attention and also customs officers in switzerland had a HUGE smile on their faces 3 A.M as I left with full throttle (to impress them of course) in that miserable rainy night when I drove my baby home.