can anyone point me to a direction to find info about badge variations on s30 models depending on production year? As people on french forums have seen pics of my beauty, which, of course is Mike's previous 260z (production date 12/1973) we've gotten into an interesting discussion about what types of badges there have been on s30 models. There's another guy who has a 2seater 260z imported also from the States who has 260z badge on the front fender. Mine has "Datsun". Also these folks say all 260 badges they've seen in europe are orange (meaning the colored areas of badges). as seen in this pic..

now that my 260 has "datsun" and the other guys' has "260z" would this be due to different production run or just that one or the other doesn't have the original badges on it? also the orange color surprised me as the ones I've seen are mainly red, with the exception that often the datsun text and 260 (or 240 i guess) are white.

any info on the subject would be great!

Hi King ~

We've all zeen several badges on the early Zs, so you'll get a big response to this. I have some photos of early badges in my archives which I will pull up when I get a minute.

Even the badges among the 240s differed a bit, with the very first early 240s (1970 model year) being different than the later 1970 models.

Carl Beck has a fascinating website (www.ZHome.com) which lists many differences in the various model year Z cars. You could start looking there while waiting for the many replies this thread is sure to generate.

I have zeen both '260' and 'Datsun' script on the 260 fenders. Remember, they were only made for a single model year. But the early 260s resembled the 240 and the later 260s resembled the 280. It truly was a year of transition for the Z car, and the body underwent several improvements along the way. It was also not uncommon for a 260 owner to replace a dented or rusted fender with a fender from another car. If they used a 240 fender, they had to either leave the "Datsun" script on it, or fill in the mounting holes and paint over them, in addition to drilling new holes to mount the little '260' badges.
Frank

The pic above is a 260Z hatch emblem.

The "DATSUN" script on the front fenders was only on 1970-73 240Z. The 1974-1974 1/2 260Z (all variations) had "260Z" on the fenders with an orange background on the "Z". Same for the 1975-78 280Z.

As most know, the series one 240Z had a "240Z" emblem on the C pillars with the earliest having a solid chrome "Z" and the later a white inlaid "Z".

When series two 240Z production started, the flow through vents were relocated from the rear hatch to the C pillars and a round emblem with a "Z" in the center was adopted to allow for air to flow behind it. Same for later 260Z and 280Z EXCEPT for the 2+2 models which had a larger round scalloped emblem with a "Z" logo on top of an orange background.

ALSO, there were two different "DATSUN" hatch emblems. The 240Z version had sharp edges on the "D" while later 260/280Z versions were much more rounded.

Subtleties. Doncha love 'em!

_________________
John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester

good points Frank! it seems like a really fascinating era. the fact that minor things on the cars changed within a single production year and often no official records left behind is amazing. As my car is 12/73 it is quite possible that they used Datsun badge on the fender, maybe because they had loads of those fenders on stock? perhaps they used them and then started using 260z badge when they ran out of 240 fenders..? Although they could've used the 240 fenders stock for spare part supply.

thanks zcar70! I'm sure I've read about those before but there are so many subtleties that my memory simply can not handle all that! also amazing how quickly one gets answers on this forum!! faster than light and almost as fast as a Z!

and Frank, is that picture from MY z?????? it looks exactly like my rear hatch with that hole in it, same color spoiler and a little worn out badge? spooky

Keep in mind that parts supply must have been a real issue for Datsun back then. They initially didn't even know if this car was going to sell well or not . They wouldn't have wanted to invest too much money on spares for a car which might be a sales failure.

They only made about 10,000 of the first model, sending about 7,000 of them to the USA, their intended market target. When the sales demands unexpectedly overwhelmed the supply, I'm sure they took many weird and drastic measures to play catch-up.

When they had improved the 240 as far as they could and still needed a stronger, faster car, they made the 260 for a single year. When they realiZed they would make a 280 beginning the next year, they probably (probably) didn't spend a huge amount on spares for the 260.

That left 260 owners to replace some body parts (such as fenders) with 240 stock. If a 260 owner bought a new 240 fender as a replacement, it came with the pre-drilled holes for the long, "DATSUN" script. NOW what was the 260 owner to do? He either had to fill and paint the holes, or insert that nice chrome DATSUN script on his 260 fender.

I've zeen two 260s which had "260" on one fender and "DATSUN" on the other! Nobody cared, if anybody else even noticed!

And YES, John ~ you're absolutely correct (again); that's the 260 badge on the back hatch of a 260, from when I photographed it at one of our monthly meetings two years ago. I'm not sure, but it MIGHT actually be Mikes!!!

AirJockie's 260 has the 260 badge on his fenders, and his driver's side badge has the alarm system barrel-lock set dead-inside the "0"
Looks like it was meant to be there!

[quote="Frank T"That left 260 owners to replace some body parts (such as fenders) with 240 stock. If a 260 owner bought a new 240 fender as a replacement, it came with the pre-drilled holes for the long, "DATSUN" script. NOW what was the 260 owner to do? He either had to fill and paint the holes, or insert that nice chrome DATSUN script on his 260 fender.[/quote]

True 240 fenders had holes for the "DATSUN" script emblem. Later fenders had holes for BOTH the "DATSUN" and the later 260/280 emblem. When mounted, the unused holes were simply covered by the emblem. How's that for cross engineering!

Also, Nissan was notorious for emptying existing parts bins before using newer parts versions when models changed. Thus the reason there was a "crossover" period from the series one to series two 240Z in January/February 1971. It's not unusual to see parts from one on the other!

_________________
John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester

very good points Frank! BUT. I zink zat only a retarded blind monkey would not have been sure that this car would be a huge success. I mean, they had just created the most beautiful car EVER to be produced and they weren't sure if it would sell.. well, everything IS possible.. lol. retrospectively it seems pretty evident that it would sell like nuts

I'm sure the picture is from mine, a funny coincidence!

zcar70 and frank I'm copy pasting all this info onto my zcar files for future reference.. it's like I have this fear that one day the web collapses and all this useful info will be lost so I compose my own handbooks out of all the best info i get.. the other day I got about 100 pages of tech talk about different heads on L-series engines.. my wife calls me obsessed.

ok so my head is spinning now.. did the 260z originally have 260z or datsun on the hatch or both? and the fact that mine has the hole visible is it because the badge has been moved away from the spoiler..?

edit: so it had datsun kind of diagonally and 260z below that horizontally.. right?

Datsun was pretty careful about their investment back then. They had this guy named Katayama in America, telling them, "YES! Americans will buy this car! Send them! Send them", but they weren't sure.

When they finally did send the first load of Zs, they only sent TWENTY of them! Talk about sticking your toe in the water before diving in!!!
They must have been amaZed by the reaction to this car. The orders overwhelmed them, and they had to do a lot of re-thinking to keep up with demand.

They had delivery problems, too. And the very very early carz had a crankshaft vibration problem which they had to re-engineer. Just two months after they made the first Z, production and delivery problems nearly ground to a complete halt for some weeks (Dec/69) and very few cars were produced.

But eventually they got it all right and by the Spring of 1970, they were cranking out more and more Z cars each month, altho it seems that few of them were exactly identical.

But yes ~ they made this sexy, sleek, fast, nimble, beautiful little sports coupe for only about $3,400 and weren't sure it would sell!!!

Added info: The earliest 240z badges were made of metal. Later they switched to plastic.

_________________


-Chris

Correct. All S30 Z-Cars had a diagonal "DATSUN" emblem on the hatch with a horizontal "240Z/260Z/280Z" just next and slightly below it.

EXCEPT for the 2+2 models which had a "2+2" emblem next to the "DATSUN" instead of the model emblem.

IS EVERYONE SUFFICIENTLY CONFUSED NOW????

LOL!

_________________
John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester

Your mind is a beautiful thing, John

Great details.

Hi Guys:
Maybe not the right Thread - but watching the discussion - - -I'm pretty sure that speking in general terms:

1. Just under 21,000 Series I Datsun 240Z's were produced between Oct. 1969 and into Jan. 1971. With the exception of perhaps a couple hundred cars - they all came to North America.

2. Mr Masuo and Mr. Katayama projected 36,000 to 48,000 sales per year for the Z Car. Mr. Matsuo tells us in his book that he was greatly disappointed that Nissan's top management decided to start production of the Z, in the same old WW-II Nissan Shatai facility that the 1600/2000 roadsters were being produced at. Keep in mind that for 1969 Nissan Shatai produced 8,646 roadsters, of which 8,428 were exported and 419 were sold in Japan. The greatest number of roasters produced in one year was 1968 - when 13,690 were produced and 12,699 were exported.

Terms like "sell well", "sales success" and even "mass production" are all relative to time and place. From Nissan's perspective the sale of Sports Cars was intended to increase their EXPORT business, even at 12K per year - that was a "success". Producing and exporting 20K per year would have been considered a huge success {in their time and place}

Not really knowing the US market - Nissan's top management must have felt that they were taking a very real "risk" by putting the Z into production scheduled at 1500 per month. That's 50% more than they had ever sold. Mr. K on the other hand knew the American market... There is not a doubt in my mind that had Nissan produced 60,000 240Z's for the 1970 Model Year - there would still have been a waiting line.

Let's keep in mind that Ford sold 190,727 Mustangs that year, Chevy sold 124,901 Camaro's that year. Now consider the fact that Mustang/Camero were considered somewhat limited production "speciality" cars in the US. Chevy sold 606,300 Impala's and an additional 162,600 Impala based Kingswood Station-wagons for 1970. {the full size Chevy's were $3,000.00 to $3,500.00 then}

Most of us know - well many of us older guys know - that the 55-57 T-Birds were not actually built by Ford - but rather out-sourced to the Budd Company. Likewise Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. did not built our 240Z's. Nissan Shatai did. Yes you say, but they are both named "Nissan"! That is correct, but cultural and corporate structures were somewhat different in Japan than the the US. As a matter of fact what Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. and Shin Nikkoku Kogyo were perfectly allowed to do {form a partnership agreement and Nissan taking a controlling interest etc}, would have been against the law here in the US. {monopoly/restraint of trade etc etc}

Shin Nikkoku Kogyo formed an "alliance" with Nissan Motor Co. Lid. in 1951..between 51 and 61 Nissan increased the amount of it's business sent there, and increased their investment in that companies stocks and bonds. As Nissan's ownership approached 20% and who's business accounted for 80%.. the Corporate Name was changed in 1961 to Nissan Shatai Koki Co. Ltd. Nissan increased their ownership and capital investment again - such that the company name was again changed in June of 1971 to Nissan Shatai Co. Ltd.

3. Starting with the 72 Series III 240Z's - Nissan Shatia had greatly modernized it's assembly plants and doubled it's production of 240Z's. So roughly 20K+ Series One, 25K Series II, 53K Series III and 51K Series IV.

4. Think of the 260Z this way....The first series was a 240Z body with an L26 needed to meet Emissions standards without dropping the Z's hp down to 110. Simply a stroked L24 {L26/L24 same block}. With the ever stricter US EPA & California Emissions Standards looming for 1975 Nissan began development of a new Fuel Injected 2800cc L Series engine {new block casting with larger bore}. The 280Z was only sold in North America, because the US had the worlds strictest emissions standards. The 260Z was continued in production for other markets, and without the US emissions equipment it ran perfectly well.

The problem Nissan ran into - development, testing and US Certification were not completed within the planned/needed schedule for an Oct. 1974 release.. YIEKS! The newer 280Z Body was completed on schedule and put into production... Thus the second series 260Z was created.. ie. 280Z body with L26.. and sold for a brief period until finally the L28E was ready around Dec. of 1974 - when the 1975 280Z became a reality.. So not only was the 260Z limited to one model year - that model year was split between two different bodies..

Anyway.. .back to Emblems... It is very hard to find all the original 260Z emblems as NOS..

FWIW,
Carl B.