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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:37 pm 
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Posts: 43
Early 1978 280-Z [2+2]. Older restoration. Has some customization. 24,000 miles on odometer, 5 speed transmission, factory A/C.
Engine runs great but car will need tires. It has been stored in my barn for some time. Many Spare parts, Manuals and Paperwork included.
Located in Milan, NY zip 12571.
$11,500.00
Please call: 845-826-2261

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 13189
Location: CT
The 2+2s in drivable condition are becoming items of high demand. Datsun fanatics who now have families and dogs or lots of girlfriends realize the 2+2 overcomes the limitations of the 2 seater Sport. People who buy Zs for investment also recogniZe the 2+2 as one of the more-rare models of the line, with the 260 2+2 being probably the scarcest model ever offered to the USA.

Frank

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:02 am 
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Hi Frank
Thanks for the input on my car. It is with much sadness that I have to part with it but I need the space and a cash influx would be nice to offset some of the costs of building our house. The car was last registered in 2005 and has been sitting ever since...too many projects and so little time.

Best, Guy


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:10 pm 
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Location: CT
Looks like you've kept pretty good care of it. Those are interesting scuttles on the rear pillar where the vents would be. I guess they create a slight low pressure area at speed, which helps airflow thru the interior?
Do you happen to have the original wheels and steering wheel?
If you had to keep it and drive it for the next year, what improvements or maintenance would you do to it?

Also, help me ~ I can't tell if there are some kind of air scuttles behind the front wheels, or if we're getting the same reflection on both sides of the car?

Frank

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Hi Frank
I didn't like the look of the badges behind the rear windows so I removed them and welded the scoops in their place. As you suggest I thought the arrangement would improve cabin air flow by creating a partial vacuum while driving. I have put less than 3000 miles on the car since I bought it so I haven't put the system to the test. The car was only driven for maintenance runs. I always liked the look of the scoops from the side and rear of the car.

When I got the car it had some kind of small diameter wheel which I found quite uncomfortable. I installed the wood wheel because I liked the look and feel of it. The wheels were on the car when I got it.

If I were to keep the car and drive it I would change the oil and put new tires on it. The tires on the car have plenty of tread but are on their way out and I wouldn't trust them at any speed. I would also inspect all the lights to make sure they were working.

I put louvers in the sides of the fenders because I like the look [similar to older Ferrari or Maserati Ghibli]. I also put louvers in the hood [similar to Jaguar E-Type]. As I remember I took the hood from my '76 parts car which didn't have any louver openings and created them. I didn't like the look of the plastic things that were in the '78 hood.

Best, Guy


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:07 pm 
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Location: CT
Guy ~

Wait ~ are you telling me those are FUNCTIONAL louvers on the front fenders? Do they actually vent the engine compartment, or are they strictly cosmetic?
Either way, they look great and very Aston-Martinesq.

Frank

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Hi Frank
Yes, the louvers are functional. Attached are some pictures I just took in the garage.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:21 pm 
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Sorry Frank. Having trouble with the pics. I'll get back to you later.

Guy


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:31 pm 
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Location: CT
Standing by..............

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:40 am 
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Hi Frank
I finally got straightened out with the photo download.
These are some detail photos I took last night of the louvers and air scoops.

The first two show the cockpit air scoops which I installed because I didn't like the look of the plastic things covering the vent holes in the body. I formed the steel on a piece of an old tire tube filled with sand and attached to a flat piece of wood. They are welded to the car body.

The third photo shows the fender louvers that I made.

The fourth show the hood louvers. I was originally going to continue them further forward but to my horror discovered that the first cut I made ended up over part of the hood stiffening on the underside so I wouldn't be able to form the bend. At the time I was reluctant to try welding the cut so a laid a little fiberglass under the hood to keep the area aligned, smoothed it and painted it. Over the years the glass has let go and you can see the result.

By the way, all other repairs were done with steel on the body.

If you are interested I will tell you how I did the louvers [caveat..based on 25 year old memories].

Best, Guy



Detail of cockpit vent rear view
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Detail of cockpit vent side view
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Detail of fender louvers
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Detail of hood louvers
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:43 pm 
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Location: CT
:shock: Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle!!! I've never heard of anyone doing that with a Z before, altho I've been arguing for decades it should have been done at the factory on every S30 made. Wow. Please tell me those louvers actually vent the engine compartment (and not just the wheel well) so that they let under hood air pressure escape? I don't care about engine heat ~ the idea behind reverse scoops and louvers should be to relieve air pressure trapped in the engine bay so the car can go faster and allow more airflow thru the radiator at speed.

Our Club member (Burton Brown) presently holds the F/G World Land Speed Record for the S30 bodied cars (173mph) and he's always looking for ways to make it go a mile per hour faster. I told him he should louver the fenders to let air flow THRU the car, rather than push the car thru the air. Just popping the hood open onto the safety latch can do that, too. He's in direct competition with another 280Z 2+2 driver (Andy Flagg) who also runs F/G and who has pushed his heavier 2+2 to less than 1 mph of Burton's record. Flagg did that by blocking off the radiator grill, so air flowed AROUND the car, rather than into the engine bay. So aerodynamics and under hood pressure actually count at those speeds.
I congratulate you on having such a brilliant thought and making it happen. Are you a tinsmith? I'm very tempted to ask you to put louvres or air scuttles on my fenders, too.
I'm sorry for hijacking your post ~ I know you came here to sell your car, not drum up business to make ours look like yours. :oops:

Frank

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:46 pm 
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The hood louvers are functional and vent the engine compartment. As I remember the plastic things that were on the car from the factory didn't vent.

The fender louvers don't vent the engine except to the extent that air from under the engine surround sheet metal can get out. I put them in because I liked the look. I don't think air can come through from the engine compartment because there is so much stuff mounted on the metal between it and the fender wells.

As I remember making the louvers wasn't all that difficult. The scary part was the possibility of screwing up
[see previous comment on the extra cut in the hood]. Screw ups are fixable but a pain.

Interesting comments on the speed runs. I wonder if the longer silhouette of the 2+2 makes the car faster [much like hull length on a boat].

I am not a tin smith. I just like to do as much as I can myself.

Thanks for your comments and questions. It is seldom that I get the chance to chat about my Z car. I never thought of you hijacking.

Have you ever had any rust issues with your Z? I understand it was caused by the steel that was used although the Brits had some rust problems too [I had a 120, 150 and E-type over the years].



Guy


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
Well, I today own the same Z I bought back in the 1970s. I kept it for 12.5 yrs as my daily driver, sole transportation, and drove the life out of it. After about 10yrs stuff began going wrong with it, including some rusting. Bear in mind I drove it thru every winter, regardless where I lived, and that involved some road salt (Syracuse, upstate). All these cars require to die a horrible early death is a single winter in a roadsalt state. As our Executive Advisor Bob Sharp says, "metallurgy was never their strong point".

Promptly at 10rs my 2-row aluminum radiator fell apart like a dry Christmas tree shedding all its needled at once. At 15yrs my wheel wells were bubbling, both my hatch hinges had rusted completely off, both doglegs were showing advanced rust, the floor had a .45acp hole in it (don't ask :roll: ) and the undersides of both doors began rusting. One day (night) in NC the gearbox stuck in 3rd gear and I was unable to disengage it. Having no time, money or facility to work on it, and being already packed for my move to CT, I very very reluctantly sold the car to a guy who had begged me for several years to let him buy it. FFwd 23 yrs, I found the car again and bought it back. All the body work had been done, the engine had been rebuilt, and the gearbox had been replaced with a '78 280Z 5spd.

I would KILL for a nice 1961 150 FHC 3.8 SE manual, LHD. I think there are very few cars more beautiful. my old 100-4 Austin Healeys (all 4 of them) were designed to race against the 120, and every teenager of my day wanted an E-Type. In fact, in my high school yearbook when they asked about "future?" I entered "Jaguar XKE Coupe". But that hasn't happened yet.

And yes, the longer 2+2 is actually more aerodynamic than the sport coupe body is. A 2+2 Z car actually held the LSR for more than a year, until Burton Brown poured a lot of money into his '73 240Z and took the crown. He's held it now for several years.
Bob Sharp began racing the 2+2 as soon as it came out as a 260Z. He won a Zeason full of races with it and used one as his daily driver off the track. He was New England's leading Datsun dealer at the time, so he could have personally owned whatever car he wanted. But he had a wife and a young kid (Scott Sharp, today's ALMS race champion) so he opted for the 2+2 in both 260 and 280 forms.

You have an interesting history ~ are you sure you really want to sell that Z? It seems you've put a lot of effort into it......

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:40 am 
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Hi Frank
You were lucky to get your Z back and in such good condition. There is something about the salt used upstate on the roads that really eats car bodies. I have an 03 Ford truck that came from that area and I can't believe the rust on the underside. I sprayed the underside with Ospho to try to slow it down and have started to put paint over it. A slow process which always seems to be at the bottom of the list and never gets completed.

My XK-150 was a FHC but alas had auto. It was a daily driver and served me well. I wish I had it today.
I never registered the E-Type. It just languished in the barn for the years I had it and I finally sold it last year once I realized I would never get around to restoring it.

The Healy 100-4 was the first sport car I ever rode in and I was hooked forever. When I was 15 [1953] a friend of Dads who worked for Austin Clark drove up to our house with one and gave me a ride. I couldn't believe how great it was to be riding with the top down so close to the roadway and what a great sound from the exhaust! Clark must have imported one of the first ones made.

I'm getting so old now that the thrill of driving is gone and it has just become a means of getting from point a to b. This is partly the reason for putting the Z on the block. I do like seeing it sitting in the garage though and parting with the car will make me sad.

Best, Guy


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
Well, I guess we've shared a few automotive fantasies over the years. I hope your friend took the time to lower the windscreen on his Healey Hundred so you could experience the wind-in-the-face excitement of a real sportscar. My buddy and I cut the top and bottom out of a tin can to use as a communicator while the screen was down at speed. One would hold the can against the other's ear and yell. The car was supposed to reach 100mph (hence the name) but none of mine would; all they gave me was 90, which, upon reflection, was actually too fast.

Today that A/T would probably make your 150 more valuable; wife could drive it to the car shows while you drove the E-Type.

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