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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
:mrgreen: :thumbs_up: Yeah, I saved a LOT of money this past week, too. For you youngin's, this is what it's like to be retired! (except that the money still keeps coming in whether you get up in the morning or not).
:lol:

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:50 pm 
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Location: Somers CT
I remember well when the collection of spare change got you a weekends worth of gas and a McDonalds burger, fry and soda :P

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W.Karl Walton
Somers CT



75' - 280Z - HLS30203249 - #304 Gold Metallic (stockish)
96' - 300zx TT - JN1CZ24d3TX960293 - Black on Black (enhanced)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:07 am 
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Location: rhode island
:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
:evil:

Well folks, the saga continues!

After taking the Z out for a short run on Saturday without any issues, I figured I could take it out again on Sunday (yesterday). The car started OK but after backing it out of the garage, it stumbled and quit. Again, no gas in the filter :roll: . UGH!

I can only imagine that there is still a piece of debris, possibly even stuck to the tank suction tube inside the tank which, as best as I can describe, is acting like an intermittent check valve. Of course the tank is now about 1/3 full which I will have to drain out prior to inspection and possible removal again. I could really use an endoscope to try to look into the tank suction area which is difficult to see because of the location of the tank baffle. I may have a better chance of getting a view from the tank drain opening. We will see! ---Hopefully!

If anyone has access to an endoscope that they could lend me, preferably one that was not used to look at hemorrhoids, I would much appreciate it!

Stay well!

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:39 pm
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.
Grrr! Sorry to hear that the issue still persists.

John. Does the pickup tube in the tank have a "sock" screen?

I know you've blown air down through the fuel lines back into the tank in an attempt to clean out the lines. Would it even be possible, to hook up a high pressure vacuum line to the fuel line to try to DRAW this blockage out by the fuel filter (since it appears it wasn't blown out)? My thoughts run along the lines of blowing out a sink drain with compressed air VS. filling the sink with water first and then using the compressed air behind the water(in this scenario) so that the liquid volumn acts as a "cylinder" moving any solids out along its path. OR maybe you could hook up a hand "bilge" pump to the rubber fuel line at the fuel filter and try sucking the gas up from the fuel tank. (?) Just another crazy thought.

Good luck.
Howie

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1985 300ZX- GLL Dark Pewter Metallic - Survivor


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Location: CT
After it sits awhile does it restart? How did you get it back into the garage?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Uggh, I'm sorry to hear you are still fighting this problem John. I thought for sure it was worked out.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:46 pm 
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Location: CT
#1: Check to ensure your fuel filter is not mounted backwards. The fuel flow is marked by an arrow. I think you had the "L" shaped plastic unit which is nearly impossible to mount wrong. Wear your glasses.

#2: Isolate the problem by providing a temporary second fuel tank up at the fuel pump; a small plastic bottle of fuel behind the pump, with the fuel intake hose submerged inside the bottle. Start and run to see if it works ok. If the engine runs full range, that indicates everything ahead of the filter is good and your problem is btwn the tank and the filter. If it starves for fuel that indicates the filter or pump itself is bad.

#3: Trace all your fuel lines btwn the tank and the filter. Look for a fuel hose which is worn, kinked, or collapsing under suction from the pump.

#4: Does your tank use a floating fuel pickup screen? My '70 car has a simple tube which sticks down into the bottom of the tank like a straw, but I don't know what they did for 1971. If you have a floating fuel pickup, it might no longer be dropping down far enough to reach the lower fuel levels. That would explain our road trip; you would have started with enough fuel, but eventually used enough for the fuel level to drop below the stuck fuel pickup screen. The fuel in the lines would have been used up and the car stalled. Now that your tank is 100%, that pickup might still be stuck at 1/3 tank level, and your short ride used just enough to drop the fuel level below the pickup again. It's a guess. I know your gage sending unit has a float on it, but I can't picture your fuel pickup system.

#5: Electric pressure sending fuel pumps mount on the crossmember just ahead of the tank and behind the passenger seat. Today's rotary vane pumps are completely silent and provide enough pressure to move fuel reliably from the tank up to the fuel rail. Fuel lines are under pressure from the rear and cannot collapse under suction from the front.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
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Location: Ansonia, CT
Thanks for your inputs, Howie, Jay and Frank! You guys are good at keeping me on track.

I am planning to hook up a hand pump to "vacuum" out some gas at the fuel line connection to the fuel filter, as Howie recommended, and yes Frank, the fuel filter is hooked up correctly. I had done this procedure once even before I had the tank removed, but plan a more rigorous attempt this time to see if anything "pops" through.

I have researched what might be on the suction tube in the tank, and can't find anything so far on the internet. I don't believe their is floating tube, sock or screen on this tube, but can't prove that yet.

I may also check to see if the car does not run, but will start and run on a portable gas tank to further confirm the exact source of the problem, which I believe I already have. The killer here is that I've had the car running at different times, once for over an hour before it quit. Intermittent problems are the worst. :evil:

More later. Stay safe!

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:42 am 
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I've got a question John.

My 260z had two fuel filters (L shape) one by the fuel tank, and one just before the pump.

Does yours too? I'm curious if the front is dry when the problem is occuring, but the back is full, or are both dry (assuming you have two).

I've seen the fuel hose collapse happen on my lawn tractor, and I think the problem comes from ethanol blended fuel degrading the rubber enough that it collapses after it gets warm.

My mower would run great for 1/2 hour or so then stall. If I tried to restart it would just turn over, but if I let her cool down for an hour she'd fire right back up and finish the lawn.

Replaced the fuel hose and never had that problem again.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:19 pm 
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["Intermittent problems are the worst. :evil: "]

Lovingly known as Gremlins.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:47 pm 
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Location: Ansonia, CT
To answer our question Jay, the 240Z only has one fuel filter which is located on the passenger side inner fender towards the front of the car. It is easy to get to and replace and like I said earlier, I don't think there are any other filters in the entire line, other than the ones in the SU carb float chamber inlets. These I also checked. There are only 2 short pieced of rubber gas lines which feed the engine, one connecting the fuel tank to the metal fuel supply line running to the front of the car, and the other is a short piece connecting the metal line to the bottom of the filter. Both of these hoses are new and have not collapsed.

But thanks for the question. You guys might hit on the answer yet! :wink:

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:30 pm 
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Location: CT
As you keep eliminating possibilities, you keep backing yrslf up toward the fuel pump. I know you said it was new, but I've installed brand-new parts which either broke right away or didn't work right out of the box. I have also installed a new fuel pump lever incorrectly (over the cam rather than under it) on an old chevy so it didn't get the full pump action. No insult, I know you've changed 100 pumps in your day but anybody can make a mistake.

Face it, you have a fuel movement problem which is occasionally leaving your fuel filter empty and you don't have a leak.

I wouldn't go thru an entire fuel-flow test, but I would conduct a short field test to ensure my pump was capable of keeping the engine running at all rpm. Let the inlet side of the pump draw fuel from a 1gal fuel can and see if that solves your problem.

At least it will tell you which end of the car to start working on.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:39 pm
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Location: Long Island, N.Y.
John,

Since you have a short rubber fuel line at each end of the metal fuel line, might you have a 3 foot length of fuel line (rubber OR metal) that you can connect to the fuel tank (after slipping off the rubber connector)? Then, connect the vacuum pump to this temporary line, after crawling out from under the car. This way you can isolate the problem as being the pickup tube coming out of the tank and not a "blockage" somewhere in the hard line run. You can also connect a blowgun from an air compressor to this line after removing the gas filler cap and give it a blast of air (70 lbs?) to blow off any fuel sock that may be collapsed and attached to the pickup tube.

It's definitely easier hooking up a vacuum pump at the engine bay, rather than under the car by the gas tank (especially for us "more senior" car people) but I worry about pulling any blockage further up into the fuel line. A garden 5 gal. pressure sprayer can also be used to push pressurized liquid through the hard line (once it's disconnected at both ends). You can use this method by connecting the nozzle w/trigger to the fuel filter hose and blowing it back into an empty gallon jug after taping the other rubber hose by the gas tank into the jug.

Good luck. Be careful. Stay well.

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1985 300ZX- GLL Dark Pewter Metallic - Survivor


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:16 pm 
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Can I have your car if you get fed up with this problem? 8)

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