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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 47
Location: OH
Can someone help me w/ info about the 2.5" Magnaflow exhaust setup as described on the Datsun Z Garage website? In the Engine Mods section there is an interesting discussion about exhaust systems at the very end ("ELEVENTH-the exhaust system"). I currently have the 2.5" system with Dynomax Super Turbo oval muffler. As the article states this muffler does not fit under the rear valance that well, an issue which I'm experiencing. The article's description of the 2.5" system with Magnaflow XL Turbo sounds very appealing + the photo of the angle cut exhaust tip is exactly want I wish to achieve. I briefly checked Magnaflow's website and its unclear to me which muffler and exhaust tip were used in this setup.
In advance, Thanks. And hey, I just might have a never used Dynomax muffler (#156301 - purchased from Motorsport Auto) up for sale if I decide to make the switch.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Richardson, Texas
Hi Chris,
As with other's comments - a big welcome to the club. Since you have owned your car for so long, maybe we can designate a new term of "Honorary Original Owner" :)

I have the full MSA 2.5" exhaust system. Here are a couple of tips for installing the Dynamax (or similar) muffler: center in / offset out; tilt at about a 30 degree angle into the fender curve. The muffler will be completely hidden.

Looking forward to keeping up with your progress.

I'm an Ohio native from Dayton, transplanted to Texas when I was 10.

Jim


Attachments:
Exhaust 5.jpg
Exhaust 5.jpg [ 101.42 KiB | Viewed 5638 times ]

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Jim Arnett
Richardson, Texas
HLS30-15320 12/1970 (original owner)
ZCON 2015 Gold Cup - Street Modified class
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 Post subject: Muffler
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:34 pm
Posts: 362
Location: Hamden, CT
That's my exhaust, I'll spill the beans.

Its a Magnaflow #12616 6" round with 2.5" inlet/outlet. The oval turbo mufflers became popular in the 1960s when they were used on the turbo Corvairs. But they never fit well on any of my Z's...so I searched for a round alternative.

The tip is a Dynomax stainless #35136, 5" length. It's inlet diameter is identical to the pipe on the muffler, so I took a 2.5" "exhaust pipe expander" and slightly flared the inlet. This let me pop it over the muffler outlet and weld it in place. If you position it right the flare doesn't touch the valance at all, I've never had it vibrate against the body. The megaphone shape of the tip adds a nice snap to the exhaust note, heh.

Image

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Bryan Little
Datsunzgarage.com

1970 240Z - enhanced F54 L28 w/P90, Weber DCOEs, 4:11 R200, Nissan T5 5-speed


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 47
Location: OH
Bryan,

Thanks so much for info, assume you meant the tip was a Magnaflow as well (didn't find that part # @ Dynomax). By chance would you have a clip (sound or video) of the Magnaflow in action...interested in what it sounds like?

Thanks,
Chris


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 13181
Location: CT
:D

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Last edited by Frank T on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:34 pm
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Location: Hamden, CT
My fault, I reversed the names earlier.

Magnaflow is the muffler, Dynomax is the tip. Same parts #s.

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Bryan Little
Datsunzgarage.com

1970 240Z - enhanced F54 L28 w/P90, Weber DCOEs, 4:11 R200, Nissan T5 5-speed


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 47
Location: OH
As you'll notice from my previous post (below) I have a 2.5" exhaust system. Current components: MSA 2.5" downpipe, midpoint muffler - Magnaflow #10416 (s. steel, straight-thru 4" Rd x 14" L), rear muffler - Magnaflow #12616 (s. steel, straight-thru 6" Rd x 14" L), tip - polished stainless steel slant cut Gibson #500421, all connected with 2.5" piping. Prior to the restoration I had MSA's 2.5" system installed and modified it per the above description in re-assembling the Z ('72).

Needless to say I now feel this setup is too loud for my current taste, guess I'm mellowing. So I'm exploring other directions. Actually considering going back to OEM via MSA's reproduction of the OEM downpipe & rear muffler & tip. Anyone know the OD/ID of these reproduction components? I also found that JDM offers similar components. The question is what about the in-between...any BTDTs out there on this. Obviously a local muffler shop needs to fab the in-between piping; suggestions for a mid-point muffler? Also, considering retaining the current 2.5" downpipe and going smaller from there back...thoughts?

Frank T... I read your 4/30/16 post about Exhaust Warehouse in NY fabricating a knock-off Ansa system. Called them today, was told they don't do that now. Years ago I recall I had installed an Abarth rear muffler (with stacked chrome tips) and was very pleased with the exhaust note.

So, any suggestions/thoughts would be welcomed. Once I get this resolved will likely be selling the system described above. Also have a Dynomax SuperTurbo oval muffler (#17733) that's in excellent condition I'd like to sell.

In advance, THANKS for any & all suggestions.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 13181
Location: CT
I'm saddened to hear Exhaust Warehouse no longer does the Ansa twin exhaust system! :cry: They put a set on our member Galban's 1971 Z and they are indistinguishable from the original 1970 series pipes. They were the only people who could mandrel-bend 1.5" pipes without crimping them. I suspect they might be convinced to make another set if enough money was thrown on them. Maybe not.

Before I heard about Exhaust Warehouse, I gave up finding a true Ansa system. I settled for the MSA Twice Pipes, which are only 1.75" ID; slightly larger than the 1.5" Ansas but certainly smaller than most other systems. The whole idea behind the old Ansa system of the 1970s was that two 1.5" pipes, from block to bumper, did a better job than a 3" single system and they sounded incredible. They used two small Cherry Bomb-brand round glass packs at the very end of the pipes. The mufflers were sold as a welded unit, resembling a pair of binoculars or two cigars glued together. The dual chrome tips stuck vertically out the back of the 'mouse hole' and *just* cleared the rear bumper. It was a great system but hung down low under my car. MSA's Twice Pipes are true duals, also, but they ride wayyy up out of sight the whole length of the car. The exhaust note is a baritone snarl, quite distinct from the old Ansa "angry hornets".

Our member John Kish has an original stock '71 with a single exhaust running all the way back to the valance, BUT there he attached a very nice "mock Ansa" exhaust tip with dual resonators included. I'll include a link for the Ansa exhaust tips. John's car sounds exactly like mine did back in the '70s. I can't think of how a dual exhaust tip at the end of a single pipe could make any performance difference or change the torque curve but LORD, it sounds wonderful. We recently took a long road trip together and one of my happiest memories was of John passing me at speed on the highway, with that wonderful Ansa sound tearing thru the countryside.

Here's the Ansa unit which sold for about $400 last time I looked:
http://watt180.tripod.com/gangloadoparts.com/id14.html

Having said all that, I am familiar with Bryan Little's car and have to tell you it sounds incredible, too. He has a lightweight flywheel which lets his engine wind up very quickly, making him sound more like a Maserati than a Datsun.

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1970 240Z


Last edited by Frank T on Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 13181
Location: CT
Here's a 240Z with an incredible exhaust note. Nobody knows who owns this car. 8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSYh69e ... =zigzag240

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:26 pm
Posts: 36
240CNB wrote:
As you'll notice from my previous post (below) I have a 2.5" exhaust system. Current components: MSA 2.5" downpipe, midpoint muffler - Magnaflow #10416 (s. steel, straight-thru 4" Rd x 14" L), rear muffler - Magnaflow #12616 (s. steel, straight-thru 6" Rd x 14" L), tip - polished stainless steel slant cut Gibson #500421, all connected with 2.5" piping. Prior to the restoration I had MSA's 2.5" system installed and modified it per the above description in re-assembling the Z ('72).

Needless to say I now feel this setup is too loud for my current taste, guess I'm mellowing. So I'm exploring other directions. Actually considering going back to OEM via MSA's reproduction of the OEM downpipe & rear muffler & tip. Anyone know the OD/ID of these reproduction components? I also found that JDM offers similar components. The question is what about the in-between...any BTDTs out there on this. Obviously a local muffler shop needs to fab the in-between piping; suggestions for a mid-point muffler? Also, considering retaining the current 2.5" downpipe and going smaller from there back...thoughts?

Frank T... I read your 4/30/16 post about Exhaust Warehouse in NY fabricating a knock-off Ansa system. Called them today, was told they don't do that now. Years ago I recall I had installed an Abarth rear muffler (with stacked chrome tips) and was very pleased with the exhaust note.

So, any suggestions/thoughts would be welcomed. Once I get this resolved will likely be selling the system described above. Also have a Dynomax SuperTurbo oval muffler (#17733) that's in excellent condition I'd like to sell.

In advance, THANKS for any & all suggestions.


Any video of this setup? I have the stock exhaust on my 71 and while I'm not requiring a mega loud system, I want a different note. Frank's exhaust sounds awesome for sound, volume may be a different matter in my case.

I'm curious as to what about your setup do you feel contributed to the loudness? was it simply the pipe size and Magnaflow #10416? or also the rear Magnaflow #12616?

Realistically I would like the note that the 10416 appears to create, but just dampen it a bit. I assume you have a non-oem Exhaust manifold?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:48 am
Posts: 47
Location: OH
DaveR in reply to your questions...

Don't have a video or sound clip of current setup. I'm in the process of installing my Z Therapy carbs and have exhaust manifold (OEM unit) and 2.5" downpipe removed. Intend to re-use OEM exhaust manifold (its been painted with POR15 high temp paint & plugging the air tube openings). Questioning whether to go back to OEM downpipe (MSA / JDM unit which I've been able to confirm the OD as 1-7/8") or retain current 2.5" downpipe and then transition to a 2" system from there back. In looking for midpoint mufflers & rear resonators looks like 1-7/8" OD is very limited regarding selection, not the case with 2".

I started out with the 2.5" OD system all the way back to the rear muffler (Magnaflow #12616) with Gibson tip and that was too loud for my taste so inserted the midpoint muffler (Magnaflow #10416). That helped somewhat but still not to my liking. I suspect the straight-thru characteristics of these Magnaflow mufflers and perhaps the 2.5" pipe are the reason. From an appearance standpoint the Magnaflow mufflers look great and the rear muffler fits into the fender nicely. I do recall that my original, pre-restoration setup, 2.5" system with Dynomax SuperTurbo oval muffler (#17733) at the rear, was loud but that was several years ago and OK with a younger me. Never liked the look of that oval muffler "almost" tucked into the rear fender (yes, I did rotate it at an angle).
Also, I'm not lovin' the appearance of 2.5" piping from the rear of the car where it goes under & turns in the area of the differential. Certainly the fact that its silver in color rather that blacked-out is contributing to this. Hangs low but I don't recall any scrapping issues to date (I have stock ride height...Bilstein inserts w/ stock springs).

So I'm still in the exploring options mode. Can anyone advise on back pressure pros/cons on OEM (1-7/8" OD) downpipe vs. 2.5" OD downpipe connected to the OEM exhaust manifold (keeping in mind I have "new" Z Therapy carbs)? As previously indicated if I retain 2.5" downpipe (would save some $$$) I'd likely transition to a 2" system from end of downpipe on back.

As always, thanks for any & all BTDTs, observations & suggestions.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 13181
Location: CT
My old dealer-option ANSA twin exhaust had two tiny 1.5" I.D. pipes attached to the stock manifold, which caused a higher flow speed thru the pipes than Datsun's larger pipes had. That, in turn, created a scavenging effect back at the block. I beat a lot of bigger cars and almost all other Zs with those pipes, until the larger cubes of the 350 Corvettes or fuelie 280Zs took over (about 70mph) and caught me. Those ANSAs were the only engine modification my car had. They sounded delicious.

Today I have the MSA tuned exhaust header and true Twice Pipes from block to bumper, but they are 1.75" I.D. so they don't sound quite the same as the ANSAs did back in the day. Unfair comparing performance btwn then and now, since I now have the big-cam / high-compression L28 engine and 5-speed in the car.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:26 pm
Posts: 36
240CNB wrote:
DaveR in reply to your questions...



I can't know where things will take us. But I basically have a totally stock exhaust from the exhaust manifold back that I would likely remove if I was to change setup. There might be some kind of swap opportunity here, although I don't think i'm going to want a bonkers loud setup either so I might need to do some tweaking of your system after the fact.

Interesting to think about though


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 445
Location: Ansonia, CT
Dave,

In all the years I've owned my 71Z one of the best upgrades I did, in my opinion, was to upgrade and replace the stock exhaust system (OK, maybe replacing those crappy OEM wheels and hubcaps rank No.1). I really think you may be missing the boat by not replacing that clunky stock exhaust manifold with an MSA or equivalent header. As Frank mentioned earlier, I also have a complete ANSA single pipe system (not mock) which includes twin over/under tail pipes. The sound is truly melodic and the performance increase was noticeable but I am now faced the dilema of what I should replace it with should the need arises. No more ANSAs.
:(

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
Sorry John ~ I thought your system was stock with an ANSA add-on. Apologies.

There were only two real complaints about my old ANSA system.
#1: The junction of the down pipe and the exhaust pipes hung down very low under the car and indeed became the lowest point OF my car, other than the tires. I can't count how many times I snagged them on speed bumps or climbing steep driveways and tore them open. My mechanic grew so tired of welding them back on for me, he kept a box of coat hangers to use instead of welding rods, just for me.

#2: At exactly 70mph in 4th (2800rpm), the pipes set up a harmonic vibration of the rear cargo deck. It sounded like a symphony kettle drum being rubbed instead of struck. Nothing to be done for it. I drove my car across the USA and Canada several times and was forced to avoid 70mph for long stretches; a pity, since that was my preferred cruising speed with that car.

But those were my ONLY complaints about the system, and I'd gladly welcome the chance to tolerate them again today. I suspect the ANSA would suit your needs nicely; they were quiet in town until you got your foot into them, then they woke up and let you know who was in charge. Anything above 3,000 rpm made everyone stop and pay attention. Below that, I could creep home late at night without disturbing the sleeping neighbors.

There are a lot of good-sounding exhaust systems for the 240Z, but in my personal experience nothing - nothing - beats the sound of the original old optional ANSA system.

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