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 Post subject: No electric to gauges.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:05 pm
Posts: 10
I have a 71 240z and I have no power to the gauges including the ammeter. The car runs fine. Is there a circuit for the gauges? All the fuses are fine in the fuse box. I have no headlights also. Must be a useable link or broken wire. Help I am a decent mechanic but have no idea what a fuseable link looks like.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Location: Orange, CT
did you look at the schematic?

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Nov/70 late series one HLS3014777 Sunshine Yellow 919


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Location: CT
Hi Woodman. I had no idea even what a fusible link was before mine burned out, and I had 3 years of auto mechanics in High School. Don't feel bad.

Just to give you an idea what they look like, your 1971 car has an obvious fusible link in the solenoid circuit on top of the starter. It appears to be a connector btw two wires (at least that's what I thought it was when mine failed in 1981). A fat plastic coated bulge in the red wire leading to the solenoid. It isn't a real fuse as we picture it, it just melts in case of an overload. If there are other fusible links on the 70/71 cars, I don't know where they are. Just as a field test, you could temporarily jump that wire from terminal to terminal to circumvent that link and see what happens to your lights. I doubt that's what's wrong with yours though, since you said the car runs OK. Mine would start on the primary ignition circuit, but die as soon as I released the key onto the secondary ignition circuit. Replacing the fusible link at the starter fixed that. And I am assuming you are 100% confident your COMMON fuse is ok in your fusebox, and that the fusebox itself hasn't become derelict. The headlamp Multi-Switch might cause problems for the lights, but I don't know how it could possibly effect the gauges.

I will offer this ~ for some odd reason Datsun used the 4-way-flasher to route electricity to almost every other system in the early Z cars. If you look at a schematic of those early-year cars, every wire meets at the flasher solenoid switch. It looks like a railroad yard, with all lines meeting at one place. Headlamps, tail lamps, parking lamps, interior lights, brake lights, wipers, directionals, horn, instruments, defroster and a few more items all route through the 4-way flasher switch.

That's the unit just behind the dashboard, where you flip on your 4-way flashers. If I had any odd electrical problems with the car at all, I would certainly focus a lot of attention on that cluster switch. It might be your problem. Replacing the whole switch might be the wiZest move, but somebody has to hang upside down under your dashboard and solder all those wires back on after a new one is installed. :x

The flasher is designed so that, in the event everything else fails, you can still warn the world of your presence as long as the battery lasts. So even if everything else burned out, you should still be able to use your 4-ways. If you CAN'T make the 4-ways work, I would consider that a convincing sign that the switch was probably causing trouble for everything else.

I love these cars and try not to criticize them too much. Datsun somehow managed to build a beautiful, water-tight six-cylinder OHC performance sportscar for under $3500 which would last at least 10 years. I don't know of anyone else who ever did that. But one of the shortcuts they used to save money was in the electrical circuits. Whoever designed them was clever, but drunk.

Because there were so many problems with the early wiring, the electrical system got "updated" very frequently, sometimes within the same production year. Accordingly, electrical parts from one year will almost certainly not work on another year. Actually, many early 1970 electrical parts are not interchangeable with later 1970 electrical parts, just for that reason. If you decide you need a replacement 4-way flasher switch, be sure to include your month/year (and maybe even VIN) of your car when ordering. :wink:

Frank

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:07 pm 
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Great information Frank, I never knew about the junction at the flasher switch. Definitely a place to investigate.

Anytime lots of electrical components stop working all at once in a car I would look for the common feed to those items (think bulkhead connection or main lug), in addition I would look closely at the circuit ground connections, particularly if the circuits all use a common one. DC circuits are incomplete with out a good ground connection.

Good luck.

Jay


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:05 pm
Posts: 10
Thank you guys for the feedbacks. I'm getting a new driveway for my new Zcar "garage" so I will start checking all on Friday. Talk to you soon. I'm trying to attach a pic of the "Z" but the file size is too large.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:00 am 
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Location: CT
Sheesh! A new driveway AND a new garage!
I ain't jealous.
Much. :roll:

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:34 am
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I’ll send a pic of the schematic later. There is a link between the gauage lighting or power and the head lights. I was reading the schematics last night. I have a wink, one dim one bright i’m working on.

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Bruce - Early 260Z - 305 Light Blue Metallic


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:34 pm 
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Shezzz too. I'm 76 years young and it's the first garage I've had that I did not fill with "valuable trash"!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Location: CT
:lol: :thumbs_up:

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Here you go.


Attachments:
B5609C8A-7067-40D9-A8F8-2F9E2EA9DF9E.jpeg
B5609C8A-7067-40D9-A8F8-2F9E2EA9DF9E.jpeg [ 1.01 MiB | Viewed 5464 times ]

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Bruce - Early 260Z - 305 Light Blue Metallic
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Thanks Bruce!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:24 am 
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Location: CT
Yeah, it appears there is only the one fuZible link btw the alternator and the starter solenoid. Also note the flasher switch has its own ground, so it works even when other things won't. And if you're patient enough to trace every circuit for every system, you will find that 90% of them are connected in some way to the 4-way flasher. Duhhh. :roll: Saki is strong stuff.

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:05 pm
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Well guys I went out to work on the Z yesterday and turned the ignition on and all the d---- gauges worked. Halloween goblins are here!! Very strange!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
Haha! They knew you were serious! :lol:

Well, while that might sound like good news, it's actually the worst thing you could hope for. It means you have a "momentary" (or temporary) Gremlin, the hardest thing to trace because sometimes it's there and other times it's not.

So now I suspect a bad ground or direct short to ground....somewhere. :cry:

Here are a couple things which immediately pop to mind:

1. As weird as it sounds, some owners with old Zs have experienced their ignition key itself being worn harder on one side than on the other; Simply turning the key upside down solved the problem;

2. The ignition switch itself can deteriorate or simply become loose. The part you put your key into is only the steering wheel lock. The back end of that (pointing to the floor) is a simple tab which fits into (and turns) the actual ignition switch below it. That cylindrical "barrel" switch has a plastic electrical plug which plugs into the back of it and sometimes it becomes worn and loses its grip on the terminals. Reach up under your keyset while the car is running and the lights are on and try to wiggle the ignition switch electrical plug. All the wires lead up to it. If you get any change in lights or gauges (or if the car quits, like mine did), you need to replace the *ignition switch* (not the keylock). Manufacture date is crucial to that part;

3. The MultiSwitch (head and sidelamps/wipers/wswashers) is notorious for wearing out or rusting up inside. They cost about $100 to be refurbished BUT they are one of the electrical items which got "improved" frequently so they are specific to the date of the car (1971 switches won't work on my 1970 car, etc);

3. Your fuse box has a trunk line ("pigtail") passing thru the firewall (mine is red). A lot of circuits are bundled together in there. Mine wore a bit (rubbing against the firewall hole) and it began shorting some items. The whole fusebox is easy to replace ($100 at MSA), which comes with a new pigtail. Make sure the rubber grommet still covers the sharp edges of the hole. The new MSA fusebox allows you to use bayonet fuses rather than the old glass tube fuses. Much more gooder.

Frank

This is the actual ignition switch. All the key does is lock the steering wheel and turn the little slot on top of the switch. The plastic connector plugs into the bottom and may be loose or worn:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/PjAAAOxy ... s-l300.jpg

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1970 240Z


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Location: Somers CT
:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: sounds like good advice to me. 8)

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Somers CT



75' - 280Z - HLS30203249 - #304 Gold Metallic (stockish)
96' - 300zx TT - JN1CZ24d3TX960293 - Black on Black (enhanced)


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