Welcome to the Connecticut Z Car Club Forums




Username:  
Password:  
Log me on automatically each visit
Register 
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:30 pm
Welcome to the Connecticut Z Car Club Discussion Forums   
If you have trouble logging in or encounter any issues, please send an email to webmaster@ctzcc.com.

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
A friend of mine in Canada sent this message which might be of interest.
Z-Guy


WB Fowler Industries Inc Hi Guy, My experience with any coating process especially if the tank does not leak is negative. The last time I had contact with the POR 15 tank sealant was helping a friend seal a motorcycle tank that had started to leak along the seam due to corrosion. It worked for the summer but the following summer you can see the coating separating from the side of the tank in a sheet. Before risking a clogged fuel pickup we scrapped the tank and replaced it with a solid one from ebay. Originally your Z tank did not have a coating, once you remove the rust thoroughly (again gravel is my preferred method) it will be back to the way it was (provided the rust has not perforated anywhere). I have a good friend with much experience on the subject. He is French but fluent in English. I have referred many people to him with questions on the subject and he enjoys talking about it. He was my VP when I was pres of the local vintage motorcycle club. My two cents! Regards, Matt Fowler WB Fowler Industries Inc. http://www.wbfowler.com (800) 290-8510




Today at 1:28 PM



To
WB Fowler Industries Inc

Today at 2:52 PM

Hi Matt

Thanks so much for your suggestion and comments. Much appreciated. I am forwarding this over to the CTZCC forum in which we have been discussing this topic.

Best, Guy










Last edited by Z-Guy on Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Thanks for forwarding this, Guy. These men sound experienced in the right areas. I had once heard the same frightening allegation about POR-15 and decided not to use it on my classic Bultaco tank. He has just confirmed the rumor.

So I guess his advice is, 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. Makes sense. If you don't have any pinhole leaks anywhere around the tank, then just removing the surface rust sounds sensical. I've known of several tanks which corroded above the fuel level (over the winter, no doubt, with a 1/2 tank of fuel and condensation from changing temperature) and now the owners can't fill the tank or it leaks out slowly in the garage. For anyone having a hot water heater in their garage, that's a potentially dangerous scenario.

I also like his inexpensive gravel idea. Actually, I like it better than throwing anything else in there. I would just make sure to remove the fuel sending gauge float first.

I am very tempted to contact WB Fowler about classic motorcycles!

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=9023

Frank T

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
I kind of like the idea of clean gravel too Frank. Presuming I don't have any pin hole leaks I think I will just clean the inside, flush it with lacquer thinner and reinstall it in the car. Considering that the car sat for so many years in my garage unused with just what appears to be surface rust I guess the tank may be good for another 40. After cleaning I plan to try putting low pressure or vacuum on it to see if it holds [maybe low pressure and a spray of soap solution to see if I get bubbles].

I wonder if the alcohol that they add to the gas slows the corrosion process since alcohol absorbs moisture [I remember we used to use dry gas to help with moisture problems in the gas tank back in the day].

You should contact Matt. I'm sure he would like to talk about cycles. I have never met him but he seems like a really nice guy.

Best, Z-Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
Here is a clarification on the stone used for cleaning the tank interior. Use crushed stone which has been washed and is about 1 inch size.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 572
Location: Orange, CT
1" seems a little big to get into small spaces. But if that what they told you then I guess it will work.

_________________
Nov/70 late series one HLS3014777 Sunshine Yellow 919


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
Hi Surfer
Here is the message that Matt sent me. I didn't think sand was a good idea and 1" seemed appropriate. Maybe I went off the beam? Z-Guy



Aug 10 at 8:26 AM
Hi Guy,

We always keep a pile of 0-3cm crushed stone for patching the driveway here at the shop. Whenever I have to clean a tank I just take a shovel full and dry it out on a table for a couple days in the sun. After a few days on the shaker, turning once a day the gravel turns bright orange and I flush the tank with plenty of cheap paint thinner.

Regards,
Matt


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
I finally got around to cleaning the rust out of my fuel tank and treating it with Caswell [thanks Frank for suggesting the product].
The crushed stone I used was from my driveway repair stone pile. I used two shovels full and let them dry before running through a 3/8 by 3/8 inch sieve to get the sand out. I then plucked out any large stones that I felt might jamb up the opening when trying to get the stuff out of the tank.

When I tumbled the tank with the stone in it I did it dry. I wonder if it would have done a better job with water added?

I put a little video of me using the jig on You Tube which I will try to include a link for here. If I am unsuccessful you can find it under the title "280-Z gas tank derusting".

The pictures I have included are out of order...Couldn't figure out how to get them into this post.

One thing I forgot to mention...After treating with the epoxy I blew out all tubes with compressed air to be sure they weren't plugged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1BVjUxo6Gc
…280 Z gas tank derusting






Attachment:
File comment: This picture shows the tank interior after treating with Caswell.
The tank remained in the rotating jig through the whole process.
To accomplish the treatment I put all of the plugs back in except the sender hole. I pulled the drain plug and coated both the interior tank threads and the bolt threads with grease and reinstalled it so it wouldn't get bonded to the tank.
After mixing the epoxy I poured it into the sender hole and installed the plug. I then rotated the tank slowly in the jig I made to distribute the epoxy. To get the epoxy around the seam area I took the handle off the rotation shaft and took the tank and jig off the saw horses so I could rotate it in the other axis.

IMG_3109 (2).resize.jpg
IMG_3109 (2).resize.jpg [ 215.65 KiB | Viewed 7407 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: This is the tank interior prior to shaking crushed stone around inside.
IMG_2990.resize.jpg
IMG_2990.resize.jpg [ 140.05 KiB | Viewed 7407 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: This is the jig I built for shaking the stone around the tank interior
IMG_3092.resize.jpg
IMG_3092.resize.jpg [ 244.13 KiB | Viewed 7407 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Here is the tank interior after cleaning. I made wood plugs for the filler and sender holes and smaller ones for the vent and other tubes. After getting all of the crushed stone out I squirted water into the tank on a hot sunny day and flushed out any rust powder that remained in the tank. Then I pulled all of the wood plugs and ran a shop vacuum in the blower mode with a hose extension into the filler tube for about four hours while letting the tank heat in the sun. This seemed to dry it out completely. I also blew compressed air into all tubes to make sure they were clear.
IMG_3085.resize.jpg
IMG_3085.resize.jpg [ 163.33 KiB | Viewed 7407 times ]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 572
Location: Orange, CT
Looks better but there's still a substantial amount of rust. Did the epoxy cover everything?

_________________
Nov/70 late series one HLS3014777 Sunshine Yellow 919


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
Hi Surfer
My goal was to get rid of the surface rust which could loosen and get into the gas lines. When I called Caswell I asked about it and was told that their product has an affinity to rust and would act as a sealer [as I understood it in the conversation].

In my opinion the epoxy will act as a barrier between the the steel and moisture laden air and prevent further oxidation to a great extent. I understand that there is some oxygen in the rust pits which could continue oxidizing but am hoping that will be minimal since everything is sealed.

It has been a while since I spoke to Caswell. I think I will call them again this week and see what they say about my finished interior photo.

As far as I could see everything was sealed on the tank interior. My greatest concern was with the interior of the tank carcass. I don't know about the interior of that canister like thing in the center of the tank.

I have no further use for the jig I made to clean the tank. If any one wants it come pick it up.

Best, Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
I really enjoyed that video and think that jig you made is pretty ingenious. :D

For anyone thinking about taking it, I could picture it being used to carefully paint car parts without letting the paint run. It might also be a clever way to hold a basket or a tire for Quarterback pass practice during NFL season!

That mystery canister inside the tank reminds me of the "reserve tank" (actually just a 1/2 gallon partition) inside motorcycle tanks. When you run out of fuel in the main motorcycle tank you switch the fuel petcock to Reserve and use the final 1/2 gallon (about 20 miles) searching for a gas station. Maybe, just maybe, this little soup can holds another pint of fuel so when your Z reads empty, you can still "wish" it to the next oasis? I dunno.

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
Hi Frank
The function of the canister still remains a mystery to me.

I can remember many times running out of gas and jigging back and forth in my lane to get any remaining gas to slosh over to the tank pickup tube. You probably did the same thing in your Healys. I would cut the ignition and coast downhill in neutral and then resume jigging after jump starting the engine when I ran out of hill. Good old days.

Best, Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Actually you just gave me a thought. The shape of that "soup can" reminds me of a cylindrical rotary-vane fuel pump. I wonder if Datsun was thinking ahead and intended to someday sell some Zs with electrical in-tank pumps? They may have contemplated it for some models, but considered it cost-effective to just make one tank for all models, whether they contained a pump or not? Certainly would cut down on the parts inventory to have one tank instead of two, and it was probably more cost-effecient to just mount a bent piece of tin in every tank? I'm fairly sure some 280z cars had in-tank pumps (?) and they might have begun that idea during the 260 era.

Thoughts?

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
I don't know Frank. How would someone get at it if it had to be replaced? I come back to wondering if they had a frothing or turbulence problem with the gas return system from the engine. I can't be sure but the return tube may go into the can.

The return tube is about a third larger dia. than the suction tube which goes to the pump.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:50 pm
Posts: 43
I just got off the phone with Jason at Caswell [1-855-caswell] and expressed our concerns about seeing the rusty looking pitted surface of the tank interior after sealing. I described cleaning the loose rust with crushed stone, rinsing, drying and my application of their epoxy product and asked if I had screwed up. He said I did it properly. I then asked about the appearance of rust after sealing and he said that the epoxy seals the surface from the air and moisture and stops further corrosion. He went on to say that they get a lot of similar calls which is part of the reason that they offer colored versions of the sealer.

Best, Z-Guy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Rust in fuel tank
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Caswell is good stuff and their customer service is quite good. Maybe there are better treatments available out there, but for me Caswell is the go-to stuff for tank interiors.

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron









Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
mile200 v1.0.1 designed by Team -Programming forum- .