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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:40 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Orange, CT
Well I'm finally taking the plunge and redoing my fender. I have a decent used left one but no right one yet.
As you may know to take the fender off you need to take the cowl panel off. Well as per standard operating procedure every screw/ bolt snapped off due to being rusted in place. I got the panel off and was shocked by how much rust there was in the plenum area. Piles of loose rust chips and general debris. There was also a large coffee can sized mouse nest in the left corner which prevented the drain from doing it's job. I removed the wiper assembly, cleaned/scraped as well as I could, vacuumed it out and applied Eastwood rust encapsulator and internal frame coating. Now I have the fender off and man there's a lot of rust. Nothing all the way through the metal but it's everywhere. Next step is wire wheel the heck out of it and coat it with the encapsulator. Ahh the fun of owning a Z...
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Location: CT
That's just surface rust. You caught it in time. You're right that a drill and wire wheel (head-on 'End Brush" or "Cap Brush" or "Flap Wheel", not a sideways wire wheel disc) is what's needed now.

http://www.carbideanddiamondtooling.com ... Tools.html

Get a small vacuum and a bar magnet to pull the particles out as you brush the metal. Protect your eyes.

Clean and dry the bare metal as soon as the paint/rust are off. Use a hairdryer or a heat gun to chase away any remaining moisture. Paint the dry bare surfaces that same day with your favorite anti-rust goop. Repaint in your car's color only after the goop dries for a day or two.

If you soak your broken bolts and caps crews with a good penetrating oil (POR or RustOleum worked for me), you can sometimes cut screwdriver slits into the broken screws (I used a Dremel side-cutting disc) and back them out carefully with the right blade screwdriver. OtherwiZe you pretty much have to drill them out (maybe you can reach some of them with an EZ-0ut). Sometimes you can get the right thread nut to thread onto the protruding broken bolt, which you can then weld in place and turn out with a wrench. Not always.

In American Zs the passenger side usually rusts worse than the driver's side because we drive in the right hand lane and park along the curb. The gutters have water in them more than the rest of the street so the passenger side gets more exposure to moisture. How does your passenger side look?

We've all seen Zs which died from excessive "web rust" under the cowl. Half the car must be disassembled to repair it, and it's usually not worth the effort. Yours will be OK if you act now. Good fortune that you caught it before it became thru and thru rust! :wink: :thumbs_up:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
I've heard of a guy who placed a mothball cake inside a nylon toe-sock and secured it under the cowl to keep mice away. I thought that was pretty clever. Moisture eventually dissolved the cake, requiring replacement, but he never saw any more mice. I never heard if the mothball could be smelled in the cabin or not. Would it even matter?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Orange, CT
Frank T wrote:
I've heard of a guy who placed a mothball cake inside a nylon toe-sock and secured it under the cowl to keep mice away. I thought that was pretty clever. Moisture eventually dissolved the cake, requiring replacement, but he never saw any more mice. I never heard if the mothball could be smelled in the cabin or not. Would it even matter?

That's an old household trick that' sbeen around since they invented mothballs.
And still a great idea. I'm sure you could smell it. When I applied the rust encapsulator it smelled badly inside. It's made with Stoddard solvent. I never did find out who Stoddard was. :lol:
I have gotten quite proficient at drilling/tapping the blind holes.
I used just about all brands penetrating oil even one aviation mechanics(which I am) use called mouse milk.
They are just too far corroded and any rotational torque results in failure.
I have just about all the types of wire wheels/cups I need. It's just going to take the labor to get it into acceptable condition.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Ansonia, CT
I was good seeing you last Sunday in Trumbull.

That sure wasn't one of my favorite tasks when I restored my Z but it is probably one of the most important tasks which need to be done in order to keep the old gal from disintegrating any further. It does look like you caught it in time. :thumbs_up: Make sure you refresh or replace the rubber fender seals. The long horizontal seals need to clip on the car body and the rubber "flap" should face outward to press up on the installed fender. This helps keep the water, dirt and debris from getting behind and into the "rusty" channel area. You will also want to "refresh" the vertical seal on the bottom rear of the cowl area where the plastic drain pipes are. I recall using a type of expanding foam for that. Make sure you really rust proof that area on both the fender and lower cowl and make sure the fender has a big enough drain slot at the bottom to let the water out. I opened mine up a bit just to make sure. How about those two lower fender bolts? Fun? :roll:

If you are looking for a fender, you might try Vinny. If you need any help, give me a call. I'm in the book in Ansonia. Cheers!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Location: Orange, CT
I found that there was rust built up between the panel seams. I used a spot weld cutter and cleaned it out.
Next I'll weld the spots again.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Location: CT
:wink: ["I have gotten quite proficient at drilling/tapping the blind holes. I used just about all brands of penetrating oil even one aviation mechanics (which I am) ..."]

I know that you know that I know that you are professionally trained and well-seasoned in electrical and mechanical theory and practice and in metallurgy and that you pay your bills and put food on the table by using those skills.

My very basic response is intended to help the beginners who read these pages understand problems they are likely to encounter while owning a Z. There are always a number of visitors on this site at any given time and I have to assume they are reading each article in hopes of learning something they don't yet know. None of my response is intended to imply you don't already know this stuff because I know you do. The advantage of belonging to a club is that you get to share knowledge of every level with everyone who reads us. If we discuss problems in basic terms, we probably help more people avoid or correct them.

But we also risk insulting each other, which is never intended. Hope you didn't think I was 'talking down' to you. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Location: Orange, CT
Frank T wrote:
:wink: ["I have gotten quite proficient at drilling/tapping the blind holes. I used just about all brands of penetrating oil even one aviation mechanics (which I am) ..."]

I know that you know that I know that you are professionally trained and well-seasoned in electrical and mechanical theory and practice and in metallurgy and that you pay your bills and put food on the table by using those skills.

My very basic response is intended to help the beginners who read these pages understand problems they are likely to encounter while owning a Z. There are always a number of visitors on this site at any given time and I have to assume they are reading each article in hopes of learning something they don't yet know. None of my response is intended to imply you don't already know this stuff because I know you do. The advantage of belonging to a club is that you get to share knowledge of every level with everyone who reads us. If we discuss problems in basic terms, we probably help more people avoid or correct them.

But we also risk insulting each other, which is never intended. Hope you didn't think I was 'talking down' to you. :wink:

Of course not Frank no offense taken and I know none was given. I understand about transferrring knowledge to those less versed and I'm the first to say "I don't know how to do it". Having an old car or whatever your hobby may be is a learning process and that's what keeps it interesting.
Honestly if it weren't for you I'd be up a creek in many instances.
Keep on commenting, that's what you do so well.
Meanwhile I'll keep getting rust dust all over me. :)
I'll add my own comment:
Don't forget your PPE, safety glasses, hearing protection, mask/respirator, etc. It only takes a few seconds to put on but it could save you from a lifetime of disability.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 12810
Location: CT
It seems so strange to hear John discussing rust on his car. I can't picture it with rust anywhere near it! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Ansonia, CT
Oh, but after 15 years of everyday driving, it did have rust. I have a couple of old pics from 1986 when I did my Z resto. Front wasn't too bad. The rear fenders were the worst.. I also replaced the lower front fenders.

Had more hair then


Attachments:
Z restore 1986.3.jpg
Z restore 1986.3.jpg [ 117.89 KiB | Viewed 2472 times ]
Z restore 1986.2Scan.jpg
Z restore 1986.2Scan.jpg [ 122.06 KiB | Viewed 2472 times ]
Z retore 1986.1.jpg
Z retore 1986.1.jpg [ 91.28 KiB | Viewed 2472 times ]

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John Kish
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
Haha! I think I've seen you wear that same shirt to some meetings, haven't I? :lol:

I sold my Z when it was 15yrs old and it had rust bubbles around both rear wheel arches and the rear hatch hinges were rusted completely off the car. The pneumatic arm didn't hold the hatch up so I removed it. When I wanted to use the cargo deck I just lifted the hatch up off the back end with two hands and laid it in the grass nearby. All that was fixed when I found the car and bought it again (for the second time) almost a quarter century later.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Orange, CT
johnnyZ wrote:
I was good seeing you last Sunday in Trumbull.

That sure wasn't one of my favorite tasks when I restored my Z but it is probably one of the most important tasks which need to be done in order to keep the old gal from disintegrating any further. It does look like you caught it in time. :thumbs_up: Make sure you refresh or replace the rubber fender seals. The long horizontal seals need to clip on the car body and the rubber "flap" should face outward to press up on the installed fender. This helps keep the water, dirt and debris from getting behind and into the "rusty" channel area. You will also want to "refresh" the vertical seal on the bottom rear of the cowl area where the plastic drain pipes are. I recall using a type of expanding foam for that. Make sure you really rust proof that area on both the fender and lower cowl and make sure the fender has a big enough drain slot at the bottom to let the water out. I opened mine up a bit just to make sure. How about those two lower fender bolts? Fun? :roll:

If you are looking for a fender, you might try Vinny. If you need any help, give me a call. I'm in the book in Ansonia. Cheers!

It was great seeing your masterpiece and for course you too :lol:
Wow was that a hand sheet metal cutter? Good exercise. Did you do the welding for the new panels too?
Those are awesome pictures.
I emailed Vinny.
I'm getting all new rubber including the long one on top, lower flap, support foam, top small rectangle foam.
I ordered new clips for the long strip and new plastic holders for the cowl from TascaParts and they had a 5% sale. Motorsport is the only place that has the strip and it's about $26 with the discount. if you don't have the club discount be sure to ask them about the CTZCC 10%. Every time you log in you get a discount.
I plan on resealing all the seams inside the plenum with seam sealer.
As for the lower bolts, the structure crumbled away and now I'll have to fabricate the frame area.
I need a picture so I can figure out how it's supposed to look since both of mine are rotted.
I picked up the cowl, wipe motor support and vertical fender support from the media blaster today and put on a zinc phosphate coating.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
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Location: CT
["Wow was that a hand sheet metal cutter?"]

Didn't we used to call those "nibblers"? One bite at a time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:38 pm
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Location: Orange, CT
I now know what the structure is that disentegrated. It's the rocker panel. I know because it have a new replacement. I'll just make a temporary repair panel until I'm ready to replace the whole thing.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 358
Location: Ansonia, CT
Ha!

Hey! I loved that shirt!

Yep, that was a hand powered "nibbler" from Eastman. Great for developing a strong hand shake, not as good as cutting through sheet metal quickly.

I actually brazed my rear fender arches and lower front fender pieces. Kind of tricky due to the heat causing warping but I took my time and it came out OK. Jimmy Kinsella eventually fixed some of my boo boos when he re-did my car in 2002.

Rich, you are doing a hell of a good job on your car. :thumbs_up: Can't wait to see the finished product. My only advise is if you get frustrated, take a break from it and get back into it when the mood strikes. At least that worked for me as at that time I did not need the car right away for transportation.

I'll have to remember to bring some of the old photos with me the next time we get together. Sorry, I can't find a good shot of the the area where the two lower fender bolts attached to the rocker panel. :( I do recall breaking those same old rusty bolts off eventually extracting two and re-tapping two.

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