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Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to shift
http://forums.ctzcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9006		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  HowardJ [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to shift
Can the hydraulic clutch system be adjusted so that I don't have to push the pedal just about to the floor in order to shift? I changed a leaking slave cylinder but that didn't change anything. I turned/adjusted the fork at the end of the master clutch cylinder rod, where it connects to the clutch pedal, one full revolution to essentially lengthen the throw of the rod but it didn't seem to make any difference. I might be able to adjust it (lengthen it) only another 3/8" before it falls off the threaded section. Should I continue adjustment to a safe length to see if it helps? Or will I damage the master clutch cylinder by lengthening it too much? There's about 3" of pedal travel before the clutch releases and allows me to put it into gear. Am I adjusting the clutch pedal correctly or might there be an issue with the actual clutch? Your thoughts and knowledge are graciously appreciated.

HowardJ
Author:  Frank T [ Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
There are three clutch adjustments; the master cylinder rod you've already played with, the pedal adjustment itself, and the slave cylinder rod travels in/out to determine where the pedal action actually causes something to happen.

You should have a shop manual for your model. That will tell you the best way to approach it. If you can't find a good shop manual locally, you could buy one from Walter Miller in Syracuse. He's a Datsun nut, too.

http://stores.ebay.com/Walter-Miller-Au ... 34.c0.m322

Here's Walt "driving" (generous term) his 1961, 1100cc 60hp 4cyl Datsun SPL213 Fairlady. I watched this car arrive at the Z Car Club of Rochester car show a few years go, and it still had spiderwebs and squirrel nuts in the trunk and engine bay. I don't know if Walter had actually driven the car all the way from Syracuse, or trailered it to a nearby motel parking lot, then "drove" it the 3 miles to the show. I didn't realiZe who he was when we discussed the car, but I remember him telling me there were no other cars like the Datsuns, and this was the car they had learned from.

http://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hsx/20 ... 98151.html
Author:  HowardJ [ Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Well.... I followed the FSM's specs for adjusting the clutch pedal height, the clutch pedal play before engagement, then bled the damper and the new slave cylinder but I'm still not happy with the feed back I'm getting through the shifter. It feels like I'm physically pushing/meshing second gear into first gear when shifting. Like the clutch is only disengaged 98%.??? Even if I grandma it slowly into second gear I sometimes can feel the gears falling into place. It may be worth investing in a new master cylinder (NABSCO OEm for me only) as some people have suggested. If that doesn't make the shifting as near perfect as I'm trying to get it, might be the next "obvious" reason/cause be possibly replacing the syncro? (Only 33,000 original miles on my Z.)

Yah gotta love theZe Z's.
Author:  Frank T [ Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Try double-clutching while shifting up and down, and tell us if that feels any better?

From first, shift to neutral, re-engage the clutch and blip the revs a bit. Then re-clutch and move into 2nd and see if the gears mesh the way you want them to. Try from 2-3 and 3-4 also. If you feel a noticeable difference, your synchromesh forcing cones might be wearing and need replacement (not as big a deal as it might sound).

Here's Frank Bullitt double-clutching his upshifts during a leisurely cruise in the country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNvc9n ... ocheCineTV
Author:  HowardJ [ Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Frank T wrote:
Try double-clutching while shifting up and down, and tell us if that feels any better?

From first, shift to neutral, re-engage the clutch and blip the revs a bit. Then re-clutch and move into 2nd and see if the gears mesh the way you want them to. Try from 2-3 and 3-4 also. If you feel a noticeable difference, your synchromesh forcing cones might be wearing and need replacement (not as big a deal as it might sound).

Here's Frank Bullitt double-clutching his upshifts during a leisurely cruise in the country:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vNvc9n ... ocheCineTV


Well..I tried double clutching through the gears as you suggested. The feed back is the same - I must PULL the shifter firmly into 2nd and 4th gears and PUSH the stick firmly to engage it into 3rd. My 5th gear goes in with the least force.
Maybe.... just MAYBE ...... this is normal for theZe Zees, and I'm just being too picayune. I guess I'll just have to sit back and enjoy driving it all over the place. 8) :) Loved Mr. Bullitt.
Author:  Frank T [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Why not let another ZX owner drive your car and tell you how it feels to him/her?
Author:  HowardJ [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Frank T wrote:
Why not let another ZX owner drive your car and tell you how it feels to him/her?


Good idea. Where can I find one of those? My local store doesn't carry anything like that. Maybe when we get to Watkins Glen I can ask for volunteers. Lol. :lol:
Author:  Frank T [ Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
:mrgreen: You're in a Club with about 800 members. Surely there will be plenty of exposure to ZX drivers throughout the Zeason. We're guests of John Taddonio in Rochester and he owns at least one of them. He would surely volunteer to give you an opinion. Keep a good thought. :thumbs_up:
Author:  Paul [ Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
If there is an after market master cylinder in there, good chance the rod is to short and have to buy an extension. I have one on my 240. It's just a metric threaded sleeve about 1" long. Also have to make sure the rod adjustment to booster is correct. ......and of course no air in the system......using the bottle method is the best assurance.
Author:  HowardJ [ Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
Paul wrote:
If there is an after market master cylinder in there, good chance the rod is to short and have to buy an extension. I have one on my 240. It's just a metric threaded sleeve about 1" long. Also have to make sure the rod adjustment to booster is correct. ......and of course no air in the system......using the bottle method is the best assurance.


Thanks Paul. That's a good thought if there was an after market in the car, but it's the original OEM Master.All clutch fluid has been changed and purged of all air all the way down to the slave cylinder. I appreciate the input.
Author:  Frank T [ Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
I suggest you let Paul drive your car a bit. He's a certified Master Mechanic and has worked on Z31s almost since they came out.
Author:  Paul [ Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
OK, I re-read.......you have the original master.........well they had a problem with them in the early years, just get one from Rock Auto, it is the modified one. It is the same exact one I have in my 240z because of it's 1 inch bore. Works great, never had an issue. You can even buy the modified rebuild kit and use your original master.......but why. Also when bleeding, always use the bottle method.
Author:  HowardJ [ Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
I will definitely do SOMETHING once I get confirmation that the shifting issue that I THINK I have is NOT a normal character of the Z31's. If it's deemed to be normal.... so be it. "Problem" fixed.
Paul, would you volunteer to "drive it like you stole it" some time during the weekend? :wink:
Author:  Frank T [ Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
A thought.

If the clutch is not disengaging totally, it would put a small strain on the engine while the clutch was depressed, because it would still be turning the mainshaft in your gearbox slightly. You could see that by the rpm falling slightly at idle. That would also result in your trouble finding reverse without grinding.

1. put the gearbox in neutral with the clutch in or out and note the rpm
2. put the gearbox in gear with the clutch in and note the rpm.

if the clutch is dragging, there should be a lower rpm when it's in gear. Im sure you could also hear the gears turning in the box while it was in gear with clutch depressed, if the clutch was still slightly touching the flywheel. That sound should disappear if the car is in neutral and de-clutched, right?
Author:  Paul [ Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Clutch pedal has to be pushed 1 1/2" from the floor to s
You mean drive it like I drive Normally :lol:
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