Hmmmm....a start button. A parallel circuit with your ignition switch...

Let me think about that awhile ~ that's an added interest item.

The "clicking/no turnover" and the "turnover no start" problems are obviously two different animals, and not caused by the same thing. So they need to be isolated.

* * * *

When it doesn't re-fire while hot, is there a way you can check for spark at the plugs while the engine is being cranked? (takes two people).
I would be interested in knowing if your coil is doing it's job when it gets hot. That also might decide if it's an electrical or fuel related problem.

_________________
1970 240Z

Yeah I need to see first if the problem persists with warm engine, as I haven't had the engine running very often in the last 18 months so I don't know how often it happens.

Coil is a possibility, because I know it gets VERY hot so it maybe dying. I have Mallory Unilite electronic dizzy so there is no ballast in the system (Mallory instructions say not to use one) and the previous owner had tried installing the ballast, the car started but died after a few miles drive. So he disconnected it and it worked. The problem is that the coil gets extremely hot (I know because I burnt my arm in it once, badly) which is not normal either - as far as I know. But I have no idea how to solve that.. In any case, the fact that the coil gets hot did not cause any problem in the 2 years that I drove the car. This problem is recent but I think when the coil gets so hot, it's not going to live for very long. So any ideas are welcome as to how to wire the thing so that it would not get burning hot..

_________________
http://kingofapes.blogspot.com/

Read this, please.

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/help ... -coil.html



"Here is a quick rundown on how the stock circuit is wired.
Starting: The W/R wire carries voltage from the battery into the keyswitch. When starting the car, the switch connects the G/W to the W/R wire. The G/W wire goes into the tach, and the B/W wire goes from the tach to the positive side of the coil. The black wire comes out the negative side of the coil and runs to the positive side of the points and to the condensor and on to ground. The negative side of the points also runs to ground.

Running: The W/R wire carries voltage from the battery into the keyswitch. The switch connects the B/W to the W/R wire. The B/W wire goes into the ballast resistor, and the G/W wire comes out. The G/W wire goes into the tach, and the B/W wire goes from the tach to the positive side of the coil. The black wire comes out the negative side of the coil and runs to the positive side of the points and to the condensor and on to ground. The negative side of the points also runs to ground."

(I completely forgot about the tach being included in the starting circuit).

W/R = White & red wire
G/W = Green & white
B/W = Black & white

_________________
1970 240Z

Any time gentlemen. That's why they pay me the big bucks

I've been reading along here...this is going to help me one day on my S30....

Yes, it will.

A lot of us include details in our discussions which might be considered "elementary" or "basic". That's not intended to insult the person we are communicating with ~ I fully accept that King has more than enough automotive experience to understand what I'm describing in my paragraph. The intent is to help others who will also read these exchanges, who might not have dealt with these exact systems before.

I know I learn something new every time you guys discuss some technical system on these cars, and that's EXACTLY why Jim Hagani included this Forum in our discussions when he put this website together. We all learn from these, and when the time comes for us to do it ourselves, we can look back into our 'archives' here and remember which member(s) were involved in that project before. If we have questions (and you know we will), we can poke them and ask how their efforts worked out. We'd all rather learn from the other guys' mistakes, than from our own.

Please remember I keep saying you younger guys are the future of both this Club, and of the Z itself. The more exposure we can give you to these cars before you own them, the better prepared you will be to care for them when your turn comes.

Make no mistake about it ~ our Zs will outlast us. They will change hands in the years to come and you 'youngsters' might well acquire some of our actual cars. The better we can prepare you for them now, the better you can care for them when the torch is passed to you. We love our carZ, and we know you'll be the ones who get them. We want you to be qualified to feed and care for them when your turn comes.

Frank T

_________________
1970 240Z

Absolutely, Frank.

And the same goes to you guyZ, the old, the wise, the all-knowledgeable. We might be able to acquire a taste for the cars, but you guys made, raced, fixed, tore apart, fixed again, etc these cars.

One of my biggest questions is what happens when the 20 year olds of the 60s can no longer get under the hood of their own 240Z. How many of their descendants actually give two hoots about dad's gorgeous car, and won't just sell it with the estate?

It's a frightening thought, and I don't even have a S30...

["Hmmmm....a start button. A parallel circuit with your ignition switch... "]

Your START button simply adds another device to be suspicious of, King. If it is faulty internally, it *could* be causing some of those problems.

If there is a way you could jump over it, you could eliminate it from consideration. Maybe jump a wire from one side of the switch to the other, to activate the START without using the button itself....? If the car started and ran without problems, you would certainly know the switch was causing trouble and needed repair or replacement.

_________________
1970 240Z

It's always great to have more experienced people share their knowledge, and I take every piece of information on board because I have seen many times that problems in cars often are in the components that we have checked already a dozen times.

That explanation of ignition circuit wiring is great, Frank, I'll print it out and put it in the glove box

As for my Z, as I explained about the ballast, I don't have it wired. My coil runs super hot and because no ballast, also no tach. I would like the coil to operate at normal temps, I don't need to be able to BBQ on my coil. Also I'd like the tach to work. But Mallory instructs not to use ballast. Can anyone tell me how to wire the coil with Unilite so that it doesn't get hot AND that the tach will work?

Frank, your point about the button is valid too. I have checked the switch and am pretty sure it works. Also, every time I operate it, something happens ie. click, turnover. And it is the most simple and robust switch there is, 2 wires and that's all. Of course I can bypass it and I WILL if the problem still returns.

The more I think about it, I feel I'm having 2 separate problems. My wild guess is the click -problem is due to a relay, and the "turnover without fire" is due to coil that is giving up. We will see

On a side note, I'm glad to be back on the Forum. I have been absent since the last 2 years my life was way too busy with work > I could not work on my Z > no activity on Forum either. It has been hard not to make much progress on my Z, and the last time I drove her was October 2011. That sucks.

_________________
http://kingofapes.blogspot.com/

We're very glad to hear from you again, King. You are one of our favorite contributors to the CTZCC website.

_________________
1970 240Z

Thanks, I love this Forum, this is the Forum that helped me realise my childhood dream of owning an S30
And I have felt guilty not being more active although I know life is such.. sometimes other things take up all the time and all we can do is keep doing what we must and make the best of what comes our way.

I've been reading that thread you linked to Frank, and as it describes installing an electronic dizzy from a zx to replace points dizzy, it is similar enough to my configuration, so I am making some changes accordingly. Mainly I noticed that the BL wire that has originally been in the Ballast –, in my case has been disconnected. The thread in question suggests hooking that onto the – in the coil so that's what I'm doing. Also all wires from the original ignition module are to be disconnected. In my case this has not been done. I'll do that and basically follow the instructions and see what happens..

Basically the BL wire runs to the ignition module and tach and as mine was disconnected of course the tach would not work.

I don't know if any of this is going to help the coil from running hot though..

Also, the thread describes a condenser at the coil but mine has none. I haven't been able to find one located anywhere else either. But on the other hand I don't see one in the 260z wiring diagram either.

_________________
http://kingofapes.blogspot.com/

Well, the condenser would only be needed with a breaker point ignition system (it prevents a spark from jumping btwn the points as they open), so your electronic ignition wouldn't need one.

BTW, I understand when you switch from breaker point ignition to electronic ignition, the tach must be reconnected to a 12v source (such as the fuse box) to give it the signal it needs to work. I haven't tried that yet, but that's what I heard.

_________________
1970 240Z

Frank, the thread you linked to describes the mod and the person who did that did leave the condenser connected. I never had it so I'm not too concerned about that,
Originally negative in ballast - in my case it has not been connected - now goes to negative in coil and this is the wire that also goes to tach. That's the way it was described and I'll try and see if it works

_________________
http://kingofapes.blogspot.com/

PleaZe let us know whatever works. You can't be the only person with this problem.

_________________
1970 240Z

I will

_________________
http://kingofapes.blogspot.com/

Soooo, whatever became of this? Any improvement?

_________________
1970 240Z