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 Post subject: Tranny starting to go
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
Well the season ended with a most enjoyable Fall gathering in Darien. My thanks to the Williams family for being such gracious hosts!

I noticed that the tranny has started making a "whirring" noise, most noticably in first gear during acceleration. I suspect it could be a worn bearing which will need to be checked out soon. The old original 4-spd unit has held up well for the last 41 years but it seems to need a little TLC now. It looks like I can get a rebuild kit including syncro parts, bearings and gaskets for around $105 which seems reasonable to me.

Iv'e changed clutches and pressure plates over the years but I've never tore apart a manual tranmission before, so this will be a first for me. I'd like to keep the original 4-SPD as opposed to doing the 5-SPD swap, not just for sentimental reasons I guess, but because I do not want to modify the console, cut any sheet metal under it and I want to keep it as original as I can. I'll also replace the worn shifter bushings while I have the tranny unit out. I'm always open to suggestions and recommendations.

Well, wish me luck and have a great off Zeason!

Regards,

John Kish
71 Z (original owner)

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
:D

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1970 240Z


Last edited by Frank T on Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
John, it's hard to picture your perfect 1971 240Z needing anything! :lol:

You fortunately have the FW471-B transmission, rather than the earlier 471-A gearbox. Yours is built in two sections rather than in three, and your shifter makes FAR more sense than the original one did.

As long as you have the box out of the car, I would respectfully recommend changing everything you can see in there. Clutch, throwout bearing, pressure plate, Universal joints, etc.

Bryan Little tore his Borg-Ward T-10 gearbox all apart and rebuilt it himself last winter, and didn't end up with any spare parts! :D

If your gearbox isn't already equipped with a magnetic oil drain plug, I would recommend buying one of those before you start your project. Any metallic pieces which get torn off the gears or balk rings get captured by that magnet, and serve as an instant indication of the condition of your gearbox each time you pull that plug to drain the oil.

In this age of digital cameras, you should take a bazillion pictures of everything you see under there, and inside the case. That might help you to reassemble the box without forgetting where everything goes. Do you have a shop manual?

Here's what Carl Beck's great website has to say about your gearbox:

http://www.zhome.com/ZCMnL/tech/AandBtranny.htm



Frank T

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 Post subject: Tranny starting to go
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
Thanks Frank for the tips (and the compliment).

Yes, I have three different repair manuals which I will use to assist me in the rebuild (Haynes, Clymer and Datsun Shop Manual).

I do have the magnetic drain plug you described in the tranny and recently checked it. Very little material was stuck to the magnet.

Years ago (I really hate to say how many) :roll: I used to be a bit "harder" on the car than I am now. I know I wore the second gear syncro which I have managed to live with for another 30 plus years. So, I am hoping the new sycro rings will do the trick.

I think my biggest challenge will be fitting under the car. I was a lot skinnier 30 years ago.

Cheers!!

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject: tranny starting to go
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
Frank et all

Unfortunately, I have the F4W70A 4 spd tranny :cry: which according to Carl Beck and my Z manuals was supplied on all of the ealry 240 Z's up to 1972. The A model has the removable bell housing.

Come to find out, the tranny kit I received was for the B model. I'm realizing now how scarce the A model parts are.

I really need an A model tranny kit. Anybody know where I can get one?

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Location: CT
You can have the one I didn't order when my "A" model locked up. :lol: My shifter stuck in 2nd gear and refused to move regardless how many gorillas tugged and pushed on it.

My 4spd was replaced by a 5 spd and life has been a lot happier since then.

Frank T

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:59 am 
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Location: Ansonia, CT
Well I'm slowly getting convinced to look at replacing the old A model 4-speed tranniy with a newer 5-speed unit as I am having no luck in finding the rebuild parts for the original tranny. I have removed the intake and exhaust manifold/header since I had to replace the manifold gasket anyway. It had a small leak in the No. 6 are exhasut port. Turned out the gasket had a crack in it. The tranny is ready to come out next.

Can anyone answer the following questions I have on this tranny swap?

1) Will the existing flywheel and clutch work with the 280 5 speed?
2) Will the throw-out bearing and clutch fork need to be replaced?
3) Will the old tranny support brace fit the new one?
4) Will the old speedo cable work with the new?
5) Will the console and tunnel need to be altered for new tranny shifter location or can the "s" type shifter lever do the trick keeping the existing boot and tunnel cut-out?
6) Will the old back-up light switch work with the new tranny?
7) Any suggestions for sourcing a 5 speed?
8) I am pretty sure the clutch slave cylinder needs to be replaced with the newer style unit but would like this confirmed. :?

Again, I'm open to any suggestions!

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1373
Location: Webster, NY
I have a well working type "A" tranny that can be purchased for the right price. It's the original from my '70 240Z. I did swap it out for a 5 speed.

HOWEVER, if you insist on the swap, here are the answers to your questions:

1. Existing flyweel and clutch will work. But as long as you have it apart, resurface the flywheel and get a new clutch. They're cheap.
2. USE A NEW THROWOUT BEARING TOO! It will never be easier to replace. Use the fork from the 5 speed.
3. Yes. And you HAVE to use the old one as it bolts up into the body instead of into a bracket.
4. Yes. But the cog needs to be changed out to the white one for the 3:36 rear end. Otherwise you will read about 5mph fast.
5. The shifter hole in the transmission tunnel will have to be enlarged about an inch on the forward side. You may have to notch the console also. Neither is noticable when together.
6. Yes.
7. The 5 speed tranny's, especially from a 280ZX, are becoming very desireable, rare and expensive. Be prepared to pay at least $400-$500 for a decent one. Check junkyards for a 1979-83 manual ZX tranny.

And change the clutch slave also. Again, they are cheap.

Let me know if you want that 4 speed.



:D

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John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
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Location: Ansonia, CT
Thanks John.

I appreciate the response. Since the old A type is so hard to get parts for, I am leaning towards getting a 280Z 5 spd now. I do like the feel and performance of the 5 speed, but thought I could fix the old one. Parts are near impossible to get apparently.

See you in New Hampshire?

Regards,

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:27 am 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1373
Location: Webster, NY
ZCON in New Hampshire is on my radar. If I go, I will most likely trailer the 240Z there.

First I have to get through all of ZCCR's events, especially our 3 day All Import Car Show Weekend July 12-14 (mark you calendars!). And my daughter's wedding in June.

:shock:

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John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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 Post subject: Tranny starting to go
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
John,

Sounds like these are all good things to worry about ahead for you! :D

I'm hoping to have this tranny issue behind me so I can drive it up to NH.

Best Regards, and again thanks for your input.

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John Kish
1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:32 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
[....my daughter's wedding in June.]
:shock:

Hey John, how old are you getting to be, buddy?

Frank

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1373
Location: Webster, NY
I had my kids VERY young Frank! I'm old enough to remember the 240Z coming out but wasn't yet old enough to drive one.

:lol:

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John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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 Post subject: tranny starting to go
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:16 pm
Posts: 1181
Location: Ansonia, CT
Youngins!

I admit, I WAS old enough to drive one when they first came out. :roll:

My three kids are all married and now we have 6 grandkids!.. One more on the way in February! Geez does time fly!

Congratulations on the upcoming weddings Frank and John! Daugthers are special.

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1971 240Z - original owner


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Oh Lawd, don't make things any worse for me than they already are, Johnny! I was quoting John T with that wedding thing.

All of mine are now grown and gone, with kids of their own and my youngest just ran off to college and turned 18. I don't even want to THINK about her getting married!!! She's still my baby girl. :(

Might I recommend calling CHICK's USED AUTO PARTS (junkyard) in Wallingford, and asking if they have any 5-speeds in their yard? (203) 269.5836. At one time he had half a doZen Z cars in there.

Frank T

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