As long as #2807 is in pieces now, I'm considering installing an A/C unit.

My concerns are about the condensation possibly being an issue for rust. Does anyone who has A/C have an opinion about this? I survived Hawaiian, Carolina and Arizona summers without an A/C when I owned the car back in the '70s and '80s, but admittedly I have become 'softer' since then.

I just wouldn't want to install something which would eventually eat my precious Z car, and thought it might be wiZer to ask someone with experience about it first.

All comments are appreciated.

Thanks.
Frank T

WD-40

Windows Down @ 40......no A/C needed. How far do you really plan on driving the car that you need A/C?

_________________
Clive Bogle President - New York Z Car Club - NYZCC.COM
1971 240Z - LS1/T56
1974 260Z-L30
1976 Fairlady Z

Oh, over every horizon!

Some of my happiest memories in #2807 were endless highways, driving until I was too exhausted to push on anymore, then waking up in some funky little roadside motel in a town I couldn't pronounce and starting a new day on the road. Canada was best ~ there was nothing up there for miles and miles. I'm retired now and can spend as long as I like out there.

I've met some really great people on this website, who live too far away to visit us. I maybe won't get to see Pete and Steve in Australia, but I sure would like to drop in on Tengu in Chicago, or Dan Linquist in Washington, or maybe even Jim Frederick in Florida.

Once I get 2807 all sorted out and am confident nothing will fall off, I plan to do some serious trips. Tom Wasney and Les Went and Mike Englehardt in NY would make good day trips, with a stop off to haunt Marc A and YOU on the way home!

Really ~ 3 or 400 miles a day would be fine for me, so the A/C might keep me from sweating thru the seat like I did back in the day.

So, do you think it would cause more rust????

More rust, no. I believe if you install an all new system you will be fine and do not have to worry about any rust. Only cause rust if it leaks and your system will not leak because you are going to install something brand spanking new!

In all honesty for a driver you plan on making road trips with.....a/c is the way to go.

_________________
Clive Bogle President - New York Z Car Club - NYZCC.COM
1971 240Z - LS1/T56
1974 260Z-L30
1976 Fairlady Z

Yea Evil, try that in Arizona (Pheonix,) on a hot July day. It's so hot, with the windows down, it's like a blow torch. At the time, our car had no A/C and it was better to leave them up and just cracked a hair. It was actully worse having them down. I miss that place. BTW, I have alot of A/C stuff laying around, matter of fact, the 75 I just parted was full of freon, good sign. So I have, condensors, compressors, evaporaters, hoses, controls. Always use a new drier, so I scrapped those. So if you decide, I'll give you a heck of a deal. (Well I do for all club members.) P.S. It's not about staying cool, it's the darn humidity, and wouldn't you want to keep that out of the inside of your Z, and your cloths.

Hey Frank
Had ac in my 71 when I was in Tx. I never considered the nominal cooling effect worth the upkeep or the weight (course those were Tx summers,up here it's a little cooler). Never noticed any condensation.
Al

OK, thanks to all.

I Wussed-out and bought a spanking new A/C unit from MSA ($999.99). The 76lb shipping weight bothers me a bit (probably 70lbs on the car, full), but there'll be no drain on the engine unless I'm actually using the unit.

I have to have SOMETHING to make Bryan Little envious!

You can bet I'll be monitoring the condensation drip to make sure it doesn't cause a back-up or any surface rust. Just about the entire car has been RhinoLinered anyway, so I might be concerned over nothing.

Frank

Hey Frank,

Please post some pictures of the component parts of this kit. I am considering it for my project, would really like to see a preview of what's in the box.

Jim

_________________
Jim Arnett
Richardson, Texas
HLS30-15320 12/1970 (original owner)
ZCON 2015 Gold Cup - Street Modified class

Yo Frank!

I'm catchin' up on all the old threads that I missed while being such a computer moron. WHATTYA MEAN 'YOU STILL ARE!!!"

I had the A/C installed in my '70 in May '73, so what I'm about to share will be just a lot of yammering since I am positive that A/C's have come a long way since then. But anyway.....

A/C wasn't available for a Z until 1972, and even then it wasn't factory installed; that didn't come along till about '74 or '75. When it was finally offered it was thru the parts dept. for dealer installation, and the kit came in this humongous cardboard box about 100 cu. ft. and 900 lbs. Well, maybe not, but that's what it felt like!

You could feel the tug when the compressor cut in, but it never seemed to make much difference in fuel economy. And I'm a hot weather guy anyway, having lived in TX, but it was nice to have a dehumidifier going.
And that's the segue for the point I want to make. Part of the unit was installed under the glove box and had a catch pan for moisture that drained thru a small rubber hose which led out to the area between the frame and R/F fender, just ahead of the door. If the hose wasn't installed correctly, your passenger could wash his/her feet without ever having to leave the car.

Guess how I know!!!!! Kathy & Rick

_________________
All Z Best,.......Kathy & Rick

1969 Z.CAR (#00013 10/69) 8/30/76
1969 ITSA.Z (#00171 11/69) 8/24/73
1970 OLD.Z (#06289 6/70) original owner
1971 510 2dr since 12/31/75
1969 1600 rdstr (our 160-Z)
1971 (#19851 1/71) sold
1975 75.Z (#01343 1/75)

Thanks Rick ~ I think the new units are completely under the hood and work thru the existing heater airbox, but I'll tell you when it comes in.

It's good that you're reading all the Threads you missed in these Forums. All of them are interesting and some of them didn't get answered completely, because most of us just shrugged and "guessed". Your sage opinion is very welcome in ANY of these old Threads because you were there, working on them, when these changes were made.

Frank

Hi Frank,
I don't want to get into timing debate with other owners as I can only speak from my own experience.

A/C was installed on my car when I purchased it new in April 1971. It was made by ARA, I presume the dealer installed it. The temp and on/off control was a small pod attached to the left side of the stack by the driver's knee. The inherent weakness of the design was the cooling fins were placed outboard of the heater fan at the inlet for the heater box. Cooling efficiency was lower because of the pulling effect, but it sure beat WD-40!

The A/C lines were crudely routed with 1.5" holes thru the inner fender wall and the passenger floorboard. The drain tube was another hole in the floorboard. All are visible in this photo:


Without a fan shroud (NA at that time), the 3-row radiator and steel fan had a hard time keeping the engine temp down in TX summers. I later had my radiator re-cored to a 4-row unit, it helped a lot.

I have closed all of the these holes in my refurb work in anticipation of better routing when I get a new A/C kit. That is why I am so interested in pictures of the components of your new unit. From his pictures, it appears that Collin's red car has the lines cleanly run right thru the firewall.

I plan to go to an electric fan and possibly a shroud to deal with TX heat. Your situation in CT may not require these changes.

Keep us updated.

Jim

_________________
Jim Arnett
Richardson, Texas
HLS30-15320 12/1970 (original owner)
ZCON 2015 Gold Cup - Street Modified class

Hi Guys:
Living in Florida - I've spent some time trying to find a way to air condition a 240-Z.

As Jim mentioned - my first A/C unit was in my 72 Z, only mine was the Fridiking (sp?) also supplied by Nissan Parts and installed at the Dealership. Also as Jim mentions there are lots of issues with these add-on units. The truth is that by todays standards - they were less than acceptable.

Nissan started to solve many of them when they redesigned the dash in the late 260's and early 280'z... They made the dash deeper - so that the factory A/C unit could contain both the heater core and the A/C evaporator with the fan pushing air through the unit. As Jim pointed out the older add-on units had to suck air through the evaporator and then blow it though the heater core into the dash outlets.

If you don't care about keeping your 240Z "stock" - one inexpensive way to add A/C that works marginally well - is to take the Factory A/C out of a 280Z - including the 280Z Dash and install it in your 240Z. The dash wouldn't be "correct" - but the A/C will at least be marginally passable.

The 240Z's have several "issues" when it comes to air conditioning them.
- They have very little heat/sound insulation - so heat radiates from the thin sheetmetal into the car.

- They have a huge Green House... So energy is allowed to enter and heat things up, while the glass keeps the heat from escaping

- At 50mph+ the door seals/ window frame seals leak cold air out..

-With cold air outlets in the dash only - and the return air inlet under the passenger's side of the dash - you get very limited circulation of the cool air - the seats/people provide an obstacle to air circulation to the rear deck area - and that is where a huge amount of heat is generated to begin with.

- None the units available - provide for fresh air to be mixed with recirculated air inside the car. So if you crack a window while driving - to allow some fresh air in - the fresh air brings additional humidity with it and your evaporator ices up.

The bottom line is - anything can be accomplished - if you are willing to spend the time and money. The only A/C units that I've found that provide enough volume of cold air come from Vintage Air in Texas. They are "universal" type components, normally used in the Hot Rod/Street Rod or Vintage Cars. Their Super Cooler line will put out enough cold air to cool the 240Z.... and keep it cool at highway speeds in Sunny Florida.

However - you still have to address some of the other "issues" with the 240Z.
- dark window tint - and/or a Rear Shade Kit to cut down on the Greenhouse Effect.
- complete heat/sound insulation though-out the entire body shell
- most effective would be to duct cold air to the rear deck area/ or install an A/C evaporator behind the seats.
- replace the door jamb seals on the 70-72 240Z with the ones from the 73 240Z - they have larger seals at the top of the window frames and seal far better at highway speeds.

When all that is done - you still don't have a fresh air mix - as is standard on any late model car.

The next alternative I'd like to try - is to find a modern SMALL car with great A/C - in the junk yard. Then take that entire system out and adapt it to the 240Z. Even if that means cutting a rather large access hole in the firewall and relocating the battery to the rear of the car. Many of the GM units have the evaporator housed in the engine compartment - with the return air though the firewall from the passenger cabin. They have a fresh air source mixed with the return stream - so the air conditioned air doesn't get stale inside the car. Of course this would never do for a "stock" 240Z - - but it would provide good A/C for tours across the Southern States...

FWIW,
Carl B.

O, I OBVIOUSLY have more homework to do on this!

On Carl's post, I would like to add that my factory AC in my 76 does a pretty good job on sunny days up to about 90 degrees. The MAIN benefit for me, is window defogging on a rainy day.

Here is a HOT TIP OF THE DAY! Well maybe a cold tip:

AC Hacking:

If you tap into the wires for the AC lever switch on the 280Z, you can install a manual button to kick in the AC compressor in ANY vent selection mode. Yes, you can have AC and Heat at the same time which is GREAT for reducing the humidity levels inside the car.

The compressor still cycles with the temp lever if wired correctly BUT you get modern-like, recirc, and defrost AC functions!

My compressor manual ON switch is the red button below the radio.

_________________
-Dave
76Z Turbo'd
72 In Progress---DONE!

Thanks Dave ~ well, that's one MORE consideration. I'm gonna have to think this out carefully and the more input I can get, the more informed my decision will be.

The MSA unit I ordered never came in. It was backordered due to the "reduced" price ($999.99 ). They gave us some long-range estimate of when it would be available. In the meantime, I needed other parts to complete the rebuild, and since MSA had my money already, we changed the order, using that cash.

When the A/C units became available again, they had boosted up nearly $250. If I had left my order alone, I could have had it at the original price.

Now the car's roadworthy but still has no A/C. I survived (sort of) without A/C for all the years I drove the car before, and I don't want to seem like a wuss, but I really am not looking fwd to sitting in traffic on 100* days without A/C. The cooling system on my Z is outstanding, so I have no concerns about overheating it with an A/C unit.

I truly believe what Carl said about the lack of insulation on the early Z. I was always tempted to pull everything out and stuff something ~ even a carpet ~ under every panel. The Hawaiian sun was merciless, and part of my routine upon returning to my parked car was to open the hatch and "fan" it up and down before climbing in, just to lower the intense heat inside. Now I have installed a double-sided aluminum foil home insulation under each panel, in hopes it will help deaden noise and combat the external heat radiating into the car. You can't beat Mother Nature, but any little bit helps and I never say die without a good fight.

Anyway, for those of you who are waiting to zee the parts of "my" new MSA A/C kit, STOP. I don't have one yet.