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 Post subject: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:12 pm
Posts: 46
Hello! I'm proud to say that I'm a new owner of a 1974 datsun 260z. This is my first Datsun as well as my first classic car (unless you count a 1992 sentra se-r but that/s not the same at all!). The car looks OK but it seems like everything has been taking off then put back on with less screws or bolts than started with or completely different ones all together, which of coarse I didn't notice at all when I bought it because I was too excited to properly inspect it :oops:,
It ran when I picked it up but not as well as it should. So far I have changed the Spark plugs and wires which didnt make too much of a difference. I thought I heard a ticking noise so I decided to try to adjust the valves so with my old fsm I got from ebay and youtube videos I went at it and it seemed to go ok but when I started the car to heat it up the ticking seemed to get much louder so I got scared and shut it off. Im not a mechanic so im not a sure if i did something wrong(im ordering a new valve cover gasket because apparently the PO didnt bother with one at all :shock: )
I just searched for mechanics near manchester ct using this forum and I think the closest one I found was The Shop in east hartford, I may need to bring it down to help me get things sorted out. If anyone knows of anyone else around manchester that could check it out or even give me some pointers Im all ears!

My name is Andy by the way and Im looking forward to meeting some Z people, Ill try some pictures and a video of the engine with the loud noise.


Image

Image

https://www.facebook.com/andy.rancourt/videos/10154537922528670/


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
WELCOME, Andy and that's a sharp looking 260 you bought!

A couple of comments to make;

1. The probable reason you see some missing screws is exactly what you guessed ~ your car has an MSA body kit on it (nose and tail spoilers) so it has been somewhat taken apart and then the aerodynamic parts were put back on. Being a 1974 car (the only year the 260 was made), many of the screws and body bolts probably just broke when they were removed (they get rusty) and simply weren't available to put back on. That would also explain the use of non-standard fasteners which the PO might have had laying around.

2. The body kit your car wears is a pretty desirable and popular item, worth about $600 from MSA Auto. The S30 body style (240-260-280Zs) were beautiful but tended to get very "light" in the front end above 80mph. The nose spoiler kept the car on the ground and let you actually STEER it at speed, rather than having to "wish" it around corners. The rear spoiler exerts downforce to keep the tail from wagging at speed. There are many rear spoilers available for the S30 cars, but not all of them actually worked. Yours does.

3. Adjusting the valves on the L-series engines (L-24 L-26 L-28) is a PITA and a really good job requires you to adjust them first cold to one specification, then warm to another spec. The average guy can do them, but it takes a big chunk of time out of your weekend and even a single beer seems to make them come out wrong. The lash pads are sold in varying thicknesses to help overcome worn valve trains and they're not expensive.

Valves too "tight" make the engine run rough and cough and spit, since that tends to keep the valves slightly open off the valve seats. When the engine warms up everything expands and that condition gets worse. Valves too "loose" make horrible clattering noises. A combination of some "tight" and some "loose" valves give you both problems.

4. As long as you have a FSM (smart move! Good man!) you should begin by ensuring the cam/valve timing is correct before adjusting any valves. The timing chains on these cars can stretch over time and along about the 110,000-mile mark (varies with each car), they can skip a cog and throw your timing off. All the valve adjustment in the world won't make up for a slipped timing chain. And if the chain slipped far enough, the "clatter" we hear might even be valves kissing pistons. :shock:

There are timing marks on the camshaft pulley and your FSM will tell you how to turn the engine to Top Dead Center on the COMPRESSION stroke for #1 cylinder (the front one). When #1 is TDC on compression stroke, the manual will show you where the timing marks on the cam pulley should be. Not every car slips its timing chain (we've all seen 200,000 mile Zs which run just fine) but I would recommend checking that before wasting a day (or two) (or three) trying to time the valves if the cam is off. You'll have the cam cover off anyway, so why not check everything you can see, right?

5. Do you have a compression checker? You can buy (or even rent) one for an hour to zee if any of your cylinders is leaking. Pull all the plugs (keep them in order of cylinders so you can "read" how each cylinder is working), then have some innocent bystander (your wife, girlfriend, your wife's girlfriend or your friend's wife 8) ) crank your engine several revolutions while you hold the gauge in the spark plug hole of #1 cylinder. Write down the highest number the gauge shows, then move to #2 and #3 and repeat until you have tested and recorded all 6 cylinders. What you are looking for is not necessarily high numbers, but drastically different numbers on any one or two cylinders.

If you have, say, 130 pounds of compression on most cylinders, but say only 90lbs on any two adjoining cylinders, that's evidence of a blown head gasket (which would give you a sound very much like a mechanical "tick". So will a single blown exhaust gasket). if you find a low compression on only ONE cylinder, that might indicate a single valve which is bent or chipped or not seating right for some reason. That would also give you a loud "Clack" as it operated.

6. Open the radiator ONLY when the engine is cold (!!!) and check your coolant for any oil contamination. If you can see black spots floating in your green antifreeZe, that's a sign of a blown gasket which is letting oil mix into your water jackets. If the PO used only water and it looks frothy like a milkshake, thats a sure sign of a blown gasket, too. Using cheap water instead of costly antifreeZe indicates the PO didn't want to spend any more money changing out the coolant and just put the car up for sale when he realiZed he had to change a head gasket. Pull the oil dipstick and see if the oil looks like anything other than oil, another indication of a bad head gasket letting water into the oil galleries.

6. Read your spark plugs. Your FSM *might* give you a photo guidance section showing you how your plugs should look, and telling you what's wrong with your engine if any of them look differently. It can be very useful to be able to tell if a single cylinder (or two) are burning differently than the others.

7. Literally any Nissan dealer should be able to do all this for you (if you're rich) or if you don't want to try it yrslf. These engines are easy to understand and work on. Some of our sponsor dealerships (see our Homepage) give us discounts on parts and labor, so it might be worth your time/expense to tow it to them for work. Our S30 Guru is Vinny Bedini in New Milford, who makes his living fixing these cars (860 355 1829). If we have any members up there near you (Tenacious Z?) they might have time to meet with you and listen to your engine.

8. An excellent way to isolate your engine "click" is with a stethoscope. Any auto parts store sells them cheap ($8) or you can simply use a straight metal rod of any kind (such as a long screwdriver or socket extension). Hold the rod against your ear and move it around the running engine until you can hear exactly where the clacking noise is coming from. **(DANGER!! The fan and belts will be moving while you're doing this, and they WILL eat you if they can grab your hair, your clothes, or your tools)** If you got low compression readings on a single cylinder, start your stethoscope probe there. You might hear a single valve clacking on that cylinder.

9. Your car is unique. The 260 was only made for a single production year (making it one of the rarest Z cars), and is viewed by Datsun people as either "early" or "late" models. The early 260s had the same lightweight bumpers the 240 had; the late models had the much larger "safety" bumpers ("park benches") like the 280s had. Inside your drivers door you will see a build-palte which tells you the date (month/yr) your car was born. Most 260 owners objected to the larger heavier park bench bumpers and that MSA body kit was a great way to circumvent them.

Your L-26 engine is probably the best Z engine of the S-30 series. Because each series engine had different bore/stroke, they each had unique characteristics. While both the 240 (L24) and the 280 (L28) were "over square" engines (bore larger than stroke), the 260 L26 was almost perfectly square (bore and stroke nearly the same). That allowed your engine to be better balanced than the other two and *theoretically* able to rev to a much higher redline. Only your induction system would limit how high your 260 should rev. Bob Sharp raced a 260 during 1974 (and even raced a 260 2+2) and broke several standing track records for his class with them.

10. Your wheels are not standard-stock, which is no big deal at all. The 260 spent its life using the notorious "flat top" SU carburetors, which gave a lot of trouble and were a 260 owner's biggest blight. Many 260 owners got their flat-tops switched to the older (and more gooder) "Round Top" carbs of the earlier 240, and still more 260 owners swapped for the wonderful triple Weber carburetor set up (if they could afford them). Properly carbureted and cammed, the 260 engine is a real screamer which will stand up against almost any other Z engine.

11. I will compliment you on you Z's pristine interior! It looks intact and clean from here. They usually rip a bit somewhere, and the dashboards almost always crack above the instruments. It looks like you got yrslf a really nice Z. Well done, Andy!

12. You have an excellent chance to meet about 100 Club members all at once this month! Each year we have a Fall Outing picnic in Darien CT to say goodbye to the cars before we put them up for the winter (PLEASE don't drive your Z during winter! CT salts the roads here and that absolutely KILLS the S30 cars). Food is free and there are fun and games and you get to meet and chat with Six-Time SCCA/IMSA racing champion Bob Sharp, who raced the first 1970 240 Z in the world and literally put the Z (and Datsun) on the US map. You'll get to meet other 260 owners and get tips (and maybe spare partZ) from them. You can zee a picture of our Annual Fall Outing on our Homepage. If your Z is not up to the trip, you can come in anything that will get you there. We have free safe parking for non-Zs too. It's our final official gathering for 2016 so you should put it on your calendar and bring the family or you significant other and meet the greatest free Z Club you'll ever zee.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9052


Frank T

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1970 240Z


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Here Andy, you need to meet Preston who is also a new 260 owner:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8951

I'm sending him your Intro as well. Maybe you two can get together and exchange notes. Don't forget this Website has a free private message board which the two of you can use.

Frank

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1970 240Z


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:48 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Stamford, CT
Welcome Andy!

I go to school in the area and drive up and down I84 and 291 to South Windsor pretty much every day for work. Im far from an expert but Ive been daily driving my current car for 3 years now so ive run into and had to solve a few issues before. Maybe we can arrange a meeting and hopefully ive dealt with some of the issues youre having. :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:12 pm
Posts: 46
What a warm welcome! Thank you Frank for all the Information, I meant to come on and reply to your points of interest the better part of an hour ago but got caught up reading Preston's thread and then the story of your love lost and found again. You have an incredible story!

Porkbun I would love to meet up soon and go over some stuff and learn the ins and outs of a daily driver. Ill pm you after this post :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

Ill just go down the list to make this easy to keep track

1. and 2. Im glad to find out the make of the msa bodykit, I do like the front, but not so much the rear, it must really work because after unloading it off the trailer and washing it I found out it wasnt even bolted on just sitting on studs and popped right off :roll: I prefer the thin spoiler that looks like a small fin off the back, I'm not sure what its called though!

3. and 4. Ill have to read about the lash pads and then go in an check out mine under the hood that would be great if it was as simple as that and re adjusting the valves, Much to Learn, the problem with the fsm is that it assumes you have the base knowledge of a mechanic and I have do not so it takes double the time to do something because it tells me to do something and then I have to look up the individual steps usually online. Also i hope the chain hasnt slipped because it seems to be new as the PO said the engne was rebuilt and the old chain is in a box. He gave me no information on the "rebuild though" which seems to have left a lot of tubes and wires unplugged or disconnected. Somehow it still runs despite that.

5. and 6. YES i do have a compression tester becuase I bought an old snap on tool chest from a friends Grandfather with all the tools still in it so I will follow your instructions and try that for the first time, I replaced the spark plugs a few days ago then drove about 5 miles, the next day when I took them out to attempt the valve adjustment cylinder #2 was black already, that cant be good!
The radiator fluid and Dip stick all check out and seem to be normal, :thumbs_up:

7. unfortunately nope! I am not even one bit close to being any sort of rich so ill be trying to learn as much as i can, however i would love it if I could make it down to Vinny's one day and fine tune or fix it if i cant figure out . Especially seeing the beautiful work done to your z

8. even with out using a screwdriver or stethoscope I can hear it towards cylinders 4 5 and 6, how right you are about that fan! If i drive slow over my lawn Im pretty sure it will blow my leaves away for me lol. I will be very careful when in the engine bay while its running.

9.I love to hear the back story to the 260z and how it is a rare find! my production date is 5/74 the bumpers seem like they are on the bigger side though. only the rear is installed at the moment but the front was included with the sale. which reminds me also the ac was taken out but kept in a box and passed on to me as well.

10. Are you sure about the wheels, they are hub caps and have Z center caps,I plan to search far and wide for a set of Watanabe wheels so for now hub caps stay put!

11. thanks for the compliment! To bad it is some cruel trick my camera is playing on us all, the dash is cracked quite badly, as is the center console arround the choke lever. the blinker stalk doesnt work so the PO installed a toggle switch near the AC controls,(kinda cool but not practical). and it goes on like this through out the interior. Oh and i have one vinyl seat and one velour but it got cut out in the picture mostly.

12. Finally as of now i have no plans the date of the meet and hope I can make it down to meet some of you and get inspired to fix up the 260z. I doubt the I will drive It down though and dont worry It will be parked in the barn safe and sound all winter!

Im ashamed to say I do not know the stories of Bob Sharp but I will be looking into and maybe watch some old videos if i can find them!

Thanks again Frank for the warm welcome and all the Information


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:48 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Stamford, CT
Its a not so glamorous 40 footer and all I got to do to it this summer is valve lash and oil so my to-do list is crazy long. Your car looks like mine when I first got it, your linked video wont show but if you dont mind I can send you a friend request on FB and we can coordinate

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71' 240Z: HLS3040666


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:12 pm
Posts: 46
Sounds great porkbun I forgot to pm you right after I said I would, started to look up old Bob Sharp videos lol


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:09 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Porkbun is a very experienced Z driver now. He's done almost everything to both Daisy (his old 260) and Daphney (his 240) over the years and is not afraid to pull something off his engine to zee if he can improve on it by using something else. He's also got one of the best-sounding exhaust systems in the Club. When he's got his car running right, he's really hard to catch. (He's also the fastest on-track GoKart racer in our Club, altho his fastest speed didn't count for the trophy, so his accomplishment went unheralded). You might gain some inspiration from him! :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:50 pm
Posts: 29
Hi Andy,

Inasmuch as you have looked at the thread on my car you can see that I've owned my 1974 260Z since new. I indeed purchased it from Bob Sharp Motors in Wilton, CT. Having said that Frank is right in saying that I, like you, am also a "new" owner inasmuch as my car sat hibernating since 1987 and this year being time to re-introduce myself to the car it indeed felt I had just gotten it the very first time because I hadn't seen it for 29 years!

As you can see from my thread Frank is extremely well informed on Z cars and introduced me to the value proposition the 260Z. I always considered the 260Z to be the "red-headed stepchild of the 240Z" but Frank pointed out that indeed that is not the case. It definitely stands on it's own 4 feet....errrr tires. As you can see from the thread it took a bit of work to get the car on the road to road worthiness. At this point it is sitting at Vinny's and in the queue there to be worked on soon. I can tell you from my personal conversations with Vinny I have not doubt that is where I want my car to be in order to bring it back from hibernation. Definitely check him out.

Andy, good luck with your car and I look forward to chatting with you as well as meeting you live.

-Preston


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Posts: 46
Hi Preston, i just finished your tire thread from the point when i got side tracked by Frank T's link to his story. I'm very excited to hear what Vinny has to say and any progress reports on your 260z! I hope you got a picture of the 30 years of dust so you can compare the before and afters :) . If I cant figure out the ticking noise Im experiencing by the time of the event on the 22nd I may call Vinny to see if i can be put on the list and maybe our cars could be parked together for a while :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:12 am
Posts: 2228
Location: Darien, CT
Welcome Andy! I hope to see you and your car at our Fall Outing next Saturday in Darien. This is a great opportunity for you to meet many of the club members as well as Bob Sharp.

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1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition 38k Original Miles


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:19 pm 
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Posts: 1644
Welcome Andy! Hope to see you on Saturday man!


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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:20 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Well Andy, I'm dying to hear what Vinny said after listening to your engine?
It was fun meeting you and I again compliment you on your nice 260. You did a good job on the carburetor swap. Glad you've tied up with Porkbun (he's a LOT smarter than he looks and has a good deal of Z experience to learn from :lol: ) and it appeared you had a good time meeting all of us.
Tell me you had a good time meeting all of us?

PS ~ I meant to adviZe you that your SUs were designed to work best with short "velocity stack" airhorns on them. The stock air cleaner incorporates those stacks and gives your SUs optimum performance. Even if you don't use the actual cover and filter, at least you should attach the base plate which has the air horns on it. Several other members do just that and can tell the performance difference as soon as they put them on the carbs.

Frank

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1970 240Z


Last edited by Frank T on Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:39 pm
Posts: 697
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
When I was looking at Andy's car I think I heard Vinny say that it might be a worn cam bearing. A lot of potential for this White Knight. Good luck with it Andy. May Z Force be with you. SORRY-I couldn't resist. :roll: :)

Howie

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 Post subject: Re: New 260z owner!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:12 pm
Posts: 46
Frank, ofcoarse I enjoyed meeting everyone and their Z cars! Everyone was super friendly and generous with conversation, advice, and food too! Velocity stacks are definitely on the list but just like Howard said, Vinny pointed out a little more than a few things I need to address so they are moving further and further down the list.
Unfortunately my hour ride home turned into a 5 hour adventure in which my z went from bogging down at 70mph to 60 to 50 and eventually to 0mph! Ultimately a tow truck was called and my overwhelmingly exciting first outing with my White Night turned slightly sour.
Larry remembers a while back when he had a similar issue and it ended up being a distributor. So now I'm waiting for a new distributor rotor and cap to arrive and I'll take it from there.


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