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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Location: CT
King, that looks magnificent so far! If it's possible, squirt some light oil into each cylinder (all around the rings) to prevent any rust from forming. I guess you have the head off and don't want to mess up the timing chain, but it's often a good idea to turn an idle engine thru a revolution every month or so when possible.

Also, I read your Rust-to-Dust blog about removing the fenders. In this country the greatest rust happens to our LHD Zs on the passenger side (driver's right), because that side is parked at the curb (kerb) where all the water and junk collect. They get splashed up into the fenders and collect in the hinge area of the passenger door and the dogleg behind the passenger door. Those two areas are likely to have the greatest amount of rust you will find on your Z.

We will really need a video of your Z running when you get it back together!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:56 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Finland
Frank, I did regularly spray some oil on the pistons when the head was off (I cleaned the deck in "stages" (read: it took a lot of effort and I was too lazy to do it on one go) and when finished each time I applied some light oil to keep it good. although my garage is super dry anyway: I have not seen the slightest amount of rust forming on sheet metal that I sanded clean and left there for several months. There's electric heating on, in the garage all the time (adjusted so that in the summer time it goes on if the temperature drops below 20c - this is when it usually starts to get more humid too and the heating deals with the humidity)

I did not turn the engine while the head was off. It was off from February until las week but yeah, I don't think there's a problems as the garage is very dry. (EDIT: head was off from April :) )

the head is already torqued down, and just awaiting for tensioner and then timing, check, check and when ok, test start. This time I can not rely on the timing marks as in a stock engine. The mechanic who ported the head and installed the cam marked where the cam should be at TDC as a starting point. I have adjustable cam timing sprocket now, so once the initial timing is ok, I'll be able to start and make basic carb tuning to get her running. then it'll be the case to drive her to a shop to be timed and tuned. but before that I must get my fenders, install them, adjust headlamps, wheel alignment (changed tie rod ends in the winter), technical control, registration etc.

There's a small rust hole in the passenger side fender, up in the corner where you don't easily see it but it lets water in to the cabin in the rain. I had wondered where the water comes from as all the seals seemed fine. it's about and inch by inch hole and luckily an "isolated case". I sanded it to bare metal and really will need max 2x2 piece of solid steel on it. the wings under front fenders were super solid. only light surface rust that I dealt with. my intention now is to fix the little rust issues in the whole front, prime, apply rust protection and assemble everything. Then for the next few driving seasons I'd really, really, really just like to drive her as much as possible (I have mostly missed out on this season already) and then in a few years time maybe strip the whole car to bare metal, fix everything, a full restoration. What I'm doing now is kinda staged restoration, and she might be fine just that way. we'll see. I kind of like certain patina she has, and am still not sure I want to make full restoration.

I will certainly post a video once she's running ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:21 am 
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Location: CT
Yup, we call that a 'rolling restoration', meaning you're driving it while you fix it. Get as many miles as you can out of it before you have to tear it all down again ~ more fun that way!

Unfamiliar with the term "technical control"? Maybe another name for "safety inspection" over here?

I didn't notice if you said the head has been milled or not? As with any OHC engine, if you mill the head to increase compression (or just to make it flat and true), be sure to shim the bottoms of the cam towers an equal amount. In other words, if you mill 0.10" off the head face, that lowers the cam towers (and the cam) 0.10" when you reassemble the engine, which puts slack in your timing chain. Placing 0.10" shims under each cam tower raises the cam back up to its original height, so there's no danger of a loose chain making noise or slipping.

This looks like an excellent job on a really nice project, and I expect you will be very happy with the results.

Frank

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:37 am 
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Posts: 331
Location: Finland
Frank T wrote:
Yup, we call that a 'rolling restoration', meaning you're driving it while you fix it. Get as many miles as you can out of it before you have to tear it all down again ~ more fun that way!

Unfamiliar with the term "technical control"? Maybe another name for "safety inspection" over here?

I didn't notice if you said the head has been milled or not? As with any OHC engine, if you mill the head to increase compression (or just to make it flat and true), be sure to shim the bottoms of the cam towers an equal amount. In other words, if you mill 0.10" off the head face, that lowers the cam towers (and the cam) 0.10" when you reassemble the engine, which puts slack in your timing chain. Placing 0.10" shims under each cam tower raises the cam back up to its original height, so there's no danger of a loose chain making noise or slipping.

This looks like an excellent job on a really nice project, and I expect you will be very happy with the results.

Frank


yeah, I spent way too long in France and my english became.. well.. messed up. The french call it Controle Technique.. of course I meant safety inspection :)

The head was milled 1mm to keep original CR (10.5:1, higher was not possible due to not touching pistons and therefore being forced to keep stock valves). The 1mm change is compensated by modified chain guide that allows for more tightening. Basically I have a further elongated hole in the curved guide on slack side and also gonna elongate holes in the tensioner slightly to allow it to be rotated for better chain curvature. According to my mechanic who's built many an L-series this will be OK.

yeah this has been a really nice project so far and I'm sure the moment the engine is fired up for the first time will be exciting. I'll definitely film the first time on video and will post it :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Location: CT
"The head was milled 1mm to keep original CR (10.5:1, higher was not possible due to not touching pistons and therefore being forced to keep stock valves). The 1mm change is compensated by modified chain guide that allows for more tightening. Basically I have a further elongated hole in the curved guide on slack side and also gonna elongate holes in the tensioner slightly to allow it to be rotated for better chain curvature".

Yup ~ that sounds like it should work just fine.

You English is completely understandable ~ FAR better than my Soumi!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:11 am
Posts: 596
Location: Finland
Soumi hahaha 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:19 pm
Posts: 1301
Location: 5 mi. from Frank
Hi King, Rick here.
I noticed your mention of 10.5:1 compression. I don't want to cause
a big dispute over a small matter. However if I recall correctly, the
compression ratio on the earliest 240Z's (1969-71) was 9.0:1. This
was right on the borderline for needing to use premium (higher octane)
fuel, although in my experience they ran fine with regular gas (about
87-89 octane). Then for 1972, compression was reduced to 8.8:1,
which I suppose was for emissions reasons, although it did accom-
modate the use of regular fuel. I really don't remember what the
1973 240 and the 1974 260 had, but I think they were also 8.8.

So in assessing your 10.5:1 compression ratio, I would have to con-
clude either of two things. (1) The 260Z for Europe must have come
with higher compression right out of the factory, or (2) the compres-
sion was raised in some way by a previous owner (something like
milling the head or using a higher CR type of piston).

Do you have any insights into this?

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All Z Best,.......Kathy & Rick

1969 Z.CAR (#00013 10/69) 8/30/76
1969 ITSA.Z (#00171 11/69) 8/24/73
1970 OLD.Z (#06289 6/70) original owner
1971 510 2dr since 12/31/75
1969 1600 rdstr (our 160-Z)
1971 (#19851 1/71) sold
1975 75.Z (#01343 1/75)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:54 am 
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Location: CT
("The head was milled 1mm to keep..") But which head did you start with?

Frank

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:11 am
Posts: 596
Location: Finland
I think it was Maxima head?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:56 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Finland
the head is mn47.
I started the engine for the first time 2 days ago. and she ran nicely even though all settings are just initial values. no problems whatsoever since I had found floats were incorrectly set.. (a misunderstanding really) I readjusted them and then she worked (the mistake cost me a starter and 5.1 litres of brand new oil plus plenty of time). What a feeling to start her and hear the sweet sound again. And a DIFFERENT sound as the new cam and triples really add a lot of depth and character to the sound. There are things to be done before I can actually drive and start adjusting everything. So this year it seems I may not be able to do my traditional, annual Fall Drive, so I made this little Movie Trailer instead.. enjoy :)

http://youtu.be/igoYIdYFLeI
or you may watch it here: http://kingofapes.blogspot.fi/2012/09/autumn-2012-no-drive-this-time.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:56 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Finland
Kathy & Rick wrote:
Hi King, Rick here.
I noticed your mention of 10.5:1 compression. I don't want to cause
a big dispute over a small matter. However if I recall correctly, the
compression ratio on the earliest 240Z's (1969-71) was 9.0:1. This
was right on the borderline for needing to use premium (higher octane)
fuel, although in my experience they ran fine with regular gas (about
87-89 octane). Then for 1972, compression was reduced to 8.8:1,
which I suppose was for emissions reasons, although it did accom-
modate the use of regular fuel. I really don't remember what the
1973 240 and the 1974 260 had, but I think they were also 8.8.

So in assessing your 10.5:1 compression ratio, I would have to con-
clude either of two things. (1) The 260Z for Europe must have come
with higher compression right out of the factory, or (2) the compres-
sion was raised in some way by a previous owner (something like
milling the head or using a higher CR type of piston).

Do you have any insights into this?



yeah, I have mn47 head. I previously had 10,5:1 CR, then the chambers were slightly opened up, which reduced the cr, then 1mm was shimmed off to compensate and we arrived again at 10.5:1 as this was what the cam was originally chosen for. And I am absolutely sure I must be very careful with the timing and use best possible fuel to avoid ping. I recently busted a ca18det engine due to detonation. Stupidity really, but the guy who I bought the car from, told me it had been professionally set up. So I trusted him and drove the car for a week ending up with a molten piston. Called him and he admitted setup had been done BEFORE engine rebuild. Sh'''t. I won't let it happen this time..

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