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T. Link
Germany
1971 240z (HLS30-16506)

Ah! Nicht Verbotten.

I just noticed that this Thread has nearly 1100 hits on it! That's a lot of traffic, and shows how interested this Club is in having someone really enjoy a Z car.

BUT ~ when Thor actually claims the car, he will have to re-name this Thread "The journey has ENDED"

Yes, Frank, and I promise more interesting pictures will follow shortly. It keeps stirring on this thread. Thanks all for your care. It's really Amazzzzing!


Thor...

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T. Link
Germany
1971 240z (HLS30-16506)

Good people and Z cars forever...

_________________
Bob Sharp Racing History Memorabillia Chairman / VP of Marketing
RDZ MOTORSPORTS / CONSULTANT
RDZ MOTORSPORTS PROTOTYPE
Black 2007 350-Z
67 Camaro Custom
Orange Late 71 240-Z Sold and sitting in a Doctors Collection

Colin Foote Never Forgotten!!

Robert, the guy who made this german 240-z video, told me he had produced another video, which might be interesting for z-enthusiasts. It's a story about classic cars joining a winter ralllye. Of course with 240 z's.

http://www.kabeleins.de/auto/videos/son ... kel/14237/

Have a look and enjoy.

Thor..

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T. Link
Germany
1971 240z (HLS30-16506)

Hi Thor..:
That is another great video - thanks for Posting it.

The tires look a lot like the one's I used in the Winter in Washington, Idaho in 70/71. By 72 most of the States put limits on the length of ice spikes that could be legally ran on the public roads - plus they had to be capable of being pushed up into the treads when ran on dry pavement. The newer ice spikes were not nearly as effective, but they did save a lot of damage to the highways.

Ice racing is still a fairly popular auto sport in our Northern States... You can see in that video, that their is a big difference between experienced drivers and one's not so experienced....

FWIW,
Carl B.

Carl, yes we like these ice racings here a lot. The competition you see in that video took place in Austria. The austrian guy with the Z bought and modified the car only for that reason.

Regarding to wheels I have a "serious" problem: the panasports 16X7 (street) which are mounted at the car apparently have no operating licence (we call it "Allgemeine Betriebserlaubnis", ABE), that means they have not been tested. Parts without operating license get no approval in this country with it's strict policy. At least it's difficult. I had no success in internet research, I couldn't also find any technical specifications about the wheels/rims. Do you have an advice? Is there a certificate potentially also in the US?

Thanks, Thorsten

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T. Link
Germany
1971 240z (HLS30-16506)

Friends, I tried my very best to translate Robert's video about the orange vintage and the silver Z. Please excuse all inaccuracies.

Let's go:
Japan, country of almond-eyed beauties, country of colourful Manga comics and country of the Datsun Z. Reliable big series technology under the long bonnet, two seats in the sleek Fastback and for a without competition favorable price.
Thus is in 1969 the successful formula of the Datsun 240z and this makes him one of the most successful sports-cars of all times. Developed for the American market the sports-car also leaves there as cut bread. In Germany the Japanese sports-car remains an exotic. Only about 300 new carriages create the way here. The Nippon sportsman is almost unknown in this country. One, who knows the 240z in and by heart is Matthias Schumacher. The former Nissan trader has entirely restored his silver 240z. The vehicle master invested more than two years of work in his Z. The biggest problem was the spare part care. In Germany parts hardly to be got for the Datsun, in the USA against it as good as everything:

O/T (Schumacher): These cars had no untersoil conservation, no hollow cavity sealing. I can to let come all parts from America, then two front fenders, the left door, rails etc., he had strongly rusted under the floodlight, behind with the shock absorber suspension. These were the main places with rust.

The technology, like engine, axes and brakes of 240z makes Japan typically hardly problems. The exception: the gear.

O/T (Schumacher): I had to exchange it twice. The fifth way was a weak point. And then noises from the camps.

With 240Z one strikes in the traffic, even if passers-by with the name Datsun can start nothing. Also from the design can be assigned of the Datsun not to his homeland. At that time as today 240z gives a lot of pleasure. It is a sports-car of the old school. A little bit rough and hard, but for it sympathetically and typically for sports-cars. The steering system reacts directly. Deficiency: although the Datsun only about 1,100 kilos weighs he is not so fleet-footed as Porsche 911. The 130-HP-and 2.4-litre-rows-6 cylinder makes the small two-seater a little bit top-heavy. Matthias Schumacher sees his 240th also more than a travel then than sports coupe.

O/T (Schumacher): I make with it a few weekend excursions, tours. He is too good for the winter or bad weather, then I do not go.

Almost one could hold 240z for a modern version of Jaguar E. The proportions are similar. Also a few genes of the Corvette are to be found. Look one in the inside becomes conscious immediately: here somebody has tried to break up the Japanese dreariness with sporty details like the additional instruments.
Suspected of cult: the ventilation of the bowl seats in the salt-cellar look and the instruments in the deep caves of the dashboard.

The name of the project: Sports 70. The order: a small sports coupe with comfort and boot for the new world, speak America. Feverishly Japanese designers come along to the work.
They get support of the German designer Graf Görtz who has worked already before for Datsun. The result: a timeless form, which arouses enthusiasm even today. In 9.5 seconds accelerates Z on tempo 100, only with 200 kilometers per hour high speed.
His robustness makes him winners with rallies. Apparently indestructibly 240z wins 1971 and in 1973 the heaviest rally of the world, the East African safari. Also with rallies in Kenya and Tanzania the Japanese is successful.

In Germany 240z is hardly to be found. Who makes a find to itself for the Nippon coupe with interest in earliest in the USA or in Switzerland. One receives spare parts best of all from America. For it one receives a rarity suited for everyday life from the Far East with cult character.

(-)

Thorsten

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T. Link
Germany
1971 240z (HLS30-16506)

Wonderbar! Great work, Thor, DANKE SHOEN! I understood everything and it is a good article. I think what is said is accurate, except that the first cars (yours!) had 151 brake horse power, not 130bhp.

And our racing experience here shows the early 240Zs to be superior to the Porsche 911, in sports car racing with a good driver. You will soon be able to decide that yourself!!!

(I think our biggest "problem" on the American roads today is the newer Mazda RX8, but that is a newer car, with a small V8 engine ~ not a fair comparison). I'm sure you will be very happy with the performance of your lightweight 1970 240Z.

My 1970 Z accelerated 0-60 in 8 seconds when it was new. Today it is stronger (slight modifications) and might be a little quicker, but I haven't timed it yet.

There is loud controversy here in America about German designers helping to make the 240Z. Carl Beck will speak about that when he reads this report.

(And one American idiom you should know about ~ the reference to "cut bread" would be translated as "sliced bread". We have this saying when we mean something is a popular or very good design: we say it is "more popular than sliced bread").

You have done a very good job of translation, thank you for this work!
Sehr Gut Arbieten!

Frank

I can remember back when I had my 73 240 in the late 70's when i drove my 240 as a daily driver and driver through the winters if you throw a great pair of studded snow tires on a Z you could go anywhere the car handled and went pretty good...

_________________
Bob Sharp Racing History Memorabillia Chairman / VP of Marketing
RDZ MOTORSPORTS / CONSULTANT
RDZ MOTORSPORTS PROTOTYPE
Black 2007 350-Z
67 Camaro Custom
Orange Late 71 240-Z Sold and sitting in a Doctors Collection

Colin Foote Never Forgotten!!

And I was surpriZed to zee, when I first looked at Rick's Lucky #13, that it still wore studded snow tires on the rear. Unless he has changed them since August, they're still on there.

Down in North Carolina a few decades ago, my town was tearing down the old high school. The kids had moved into a new one. The old sports track (football field, surrounded by a running track) was abandoned and unused as well, and the fences had been torn down.

One night it snowed a little and then the temperature dropped, resulting in a hard freeZe. I drove 02807 onto the abandoned 1/4 mile running track and spent almost a whole tank of gasoline drifting around my own private race course! It's one of my fondest memories with my Z.

Unless you build the L24 to big horsepower, it really isn't easy to make the car drift or powerslide on dry pavement (well, maybe downhill at high speeds......did that once). On dirt or snow or ice, it's another world. The car is pretty well balanced and under those conditions, there is enough power to make it do almost whatever you want.

Hi Guys:
In March of 1970 - I happen to be shopping for a new 911... so I looked at the 911's, the Corvettes and finally bought the 240Z. I would have been a buyer for the 911E - as I wanted Fuel Injection and the S wasn't really a nice car to drive in stop and go traffic, but it was real screamer above 4500 RPM.

The 911E that I was looking at / trying to buy - had Dealer Price of just over $8500.00 with Mag's and 5spd. As I recall the Porsche Dealer wanted to allow me $4000.00 for my 67 911S... {I later sold it myself for $6,500.00 with no problem}.

For 1970 in the USA:

Datsun 240Z - 2.4L with an SAE rated 151hp - and aprox 2350 Curb Weight.

Porsche 911:
911-T 2.2L with 125 DIN and 145 SAE 2250 - 2350 lbs Curb Weight
911-E 2.2L with 140 DIN and 160 SAE
911-S 2.2L with 180 DIN and 200 SAE

It is interesting to look at the history of the development of the 911 - as you will see that Porsche had its problems to overcome with that model - over time - just as Nissan did with the 240Z. For example both had problems with aerodynamic lift on the front - - Porsche's first solution was to add weights inside the front fenders... . Both cars suffered from significant rust issues and both changed several body panels to galvanized metal in later production cars. Of course Goertz claimed to have a hand in the design of both.... although Porsche and Nissan say otherwise.

We also have to keep in mind the the German Home Market 911's did not have to comply with the strict emissions standards that the models exported to the US did. Nor did the 911's have to pay the very high restrictive Trade Tariffs imposed on Japanese imports in Germany. A 911 would have cost less than a Datsun 240Z in Germany in 1970. While the German economy recovered in West Germany at a faster pace than that of Japan after WW-II, both the Datsun 240Z and the Porsche 911 would have been economically out of reach for the mass middle class in either country circa 1970.

I haven't seen the numbers, but I would be very much surprised if there aren't far more 1970 to 1983 911's in the US than there are in Germany today.

While Peter Brock and his team were successful in preparing the 240Z for SCCA's C-Production Class - and beating the previous C-Production Championship 911's from 1969 - - - and the new 914/6's for 1970 - - - the race prepared 911's, 914's and the 240Z's were all far from bone stock!. Much credit goes to Nissan for a wonderful design to start with, very high quality mechanical parts to work with and the Engine and Suspension Guy's at BRE - - - A very large part of Datsun's success was John Morton, both in SCCA's C-Production and the Trans-Am 2.5 Challenge....

By 1972 Porsche increased their engine size to 2.4L to try to keep up with the Z's - and finally moved out of the SCCA's C-Production Class altogether...

Setting Price and Pedigree aside - I'd say that the 240Z's and 911's were pretty evenly matched. Factor in Reliability and Price the Z wins hands down. Factor in Pedigree and Price - well then the 911 really stands alone. Just my personal opinion, but going forward from 73 Porsche took the path I'd prefer. They kept the 911 pure and continued to refine, develop and improve it - where Nissan lost its way with the Z.

Today - given the opportunity to drive a Datsun 240Z or a 72/73 911 around America - I'd take the 240Z hands down. The driving position is far better for me and the cargo area far more useful in the Z.

Nonetheless - the Datsun 240Z changed the Automotive Marketplace and Automobile History - that can not be said of the 911.

FWIW,
Carl B.

Hi Thorseten:
Thanks for translating the article. Not to disagree with Mr. Schumacher, but rather to share my perspectives from the American Market at the time...



I would put a slightly different order on the factors of success.
1. Designed for the American Market - a huge paradigm shift at the time!
2. Hatch Back - not a Fastback. The rear cargo area and ease of use via the hatchback - give the 240Z a great deal of everyday "utility" that was missing in most of the competition at the time.
3. Proven reliability by the forerunning Datsun 510 and proven Dealer Service by the Datsun Dealers at the time. All far better than the reputations established by the MG, Triumph and Fiat Dealers - the Opel sold at GM Dealerships was a joke to them.

The "Price" of the 240Z was about the same as its competition here in the US.
From R& T June 1971:
MGB-GT $3620.00
240Z $3596.00
Triumph GT-6 $3424.00
Opel GT $3306.00
Fiat 124 Sports Cpe $3292.00

Pointing to the "Price" as a factor is very misleading. The 240Z did not sell because of its price. There were lots of cars in that price range to choose from.

It was the styling, size and comfort for American's, overall performance, and all round Utility that sold the car. People who never considered a Sports/GT because the competition in the mid priced Sports/GT class lacked most or all these qualities before - came in to buy a 240Z. The Sports/GT buyers simply saw the 240Z as providing more value for their money than any of the competition offered at the same or lower prices.

The Datsun 240Z was a mid priced Sports/GT - it was not inexpensive. The Z cost twice as much as the 510, and about the same as a Mustang/Camero {not in the Pinto/Vega class of inexpensive cars at all}.




This is true. The Type A 5spd. did suffer from 5th gear problems over the long run. One "private" racer that ran Daytona and Sebring enduro's - and finished more often and ahead of the Nissan Sponsored BSR team - - - told me years later that their secrete to success was running the 4spd. while telling everyone else that it was the 5spd.

Fifth gear was also a problem in the 77-80 5spd. as a lock nut that held 5th gear - was threaded the wrong way - and it would come lose over time. Nissan reversed the thread on that nut for the 81 and forward Type B 5spds. to correct that problem.

None of the above were serious faults for street driven Z's - they mostly showed up in competition cars.



I completely agree. I see the 240Z as more of a GT than a pure Sports Car. But then I see the 911 as more of a GT than the pure sports car that the 356 was.



Although the E-Type is often cited - I believe that the 1967 Ferrari 275GTB is closer to the styling and design.



As I understood it - the actual Design Project File Name assigned by Mr. Hara the head of the Design Department at the time was "Project Z". {as previous files already used "X" and "Y"}. Certainly by the time the car was produced and documents written - "Sports 70" started to show up. During the Manufacturing and Production Prototype stages - they used "270" as the project designation.

Just my perspectives at this point....
kind regards,
Carl

WOW! Carl, you da man! I enjoy reading your assessments of
things Z from a historical perspective since it rekindles a lot of
things I experienced myself "back in the day." But the technical
perspective really grabs me because I was never much of a tech-
nician, so thanks for that also.

Could you please tell us what a "Type A" 5-speed is? I haven't
heard that term before, but would guess that it was the unit used
in the SRL-311 2-liter roadsters which was often transplanted into
early Z cars in the absence of anything else but the Competition
Department HD 5-speeds (which by comparison were quite costly).

Thanks and All Z Best,....................Kathy & Rick

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All Z Best,.......Kathy & Rick

1969 Z.CAR (#00013 10/69) 8/30/76
1969 ITSA.Z (#00171 11/69) 8/24/73
1970 OLD.Z (#06289 6/70) original owner
1971 510 2dr since 12/31/75
1969 1600 rdstr (our 160-Z)
1971 (#19851 1/71) sold
1975 75.Z (#01343 1/75)