Welcome to the Connecticut Z Car Club Forums




Username:  
Password:  
Log me on automatically each visit
Register 
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:23 am
Welcome to the Connecticut Z Car Club Discussion Forums   
If you have trouble logging in or encounter any issues, please send an email to webmaster@ctzcc.com.

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
We have more than 700 cars in the Club. Some of us race, but more of the cars are street or show today. Each car has a unique story; yours will certainly be welcome.

Lotus 7 and Super 7 (or Caterhams) are some of my favorite all-time fun machines to watch. They remind me of a 'fast' Morgan and can usually be seen at the head of the pack after the tires warm up. Our Executive Advisor Bob Sharp raced one in his early career, before he discovered Datsun Roadsters and sedans.

What class do you race?

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:10 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Tolland, CT
Super 7's ...... one of my 1st trips to a club race was following a BRG super 7 and
it was like watching a cartoon car, moved left to rt & back so fast hard to see it move.
We also had a bright yellow 7 running a tuned ford cortina engine putting out about 215 hp.
I have some old 8mm film running at the old riverside park in Agawam, now Six Flags.
We used to rent it on sundays for timed lap events. Frank, we also had a Morgan 8 .
I have to get these films digitized, they might be a fun post. Goes back to the original
CT 240Z club. Brings back memories. The 2 7's OFTEN took FTD, especially on tight
courses with short straights.
Love to Z the 7 also, we just love cars.
Jack

_________________
John D .... original 240 past, 260v8Roadster current


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Yup, little go-karts on steroids. Like a well-sorted Mini Cooper.

I loved the old ash-framed Morgans. They had issues, but they had STYLE. I lusted over the Morgan 8 with the Rover engine, even tho they were Lucas-condemned. But I also wanted a Daimler Dart with its Harley Earl V8, so go figure where my teenaged head was at.

Colin Chapman stole the thunder away from each of those cars when he put together the 7 and Super 7 (and eventually the giant-killer Elite). The SCCA rules were so skewed in the 1960s that open wheel cars could race alongside old bathtub Porsches, and the thunderous 427 Ford sedans competed against Jaguar 4-doors. It was wonderful to watch (from a safe distance), but it must have been mightily frustrating for the drivers and teams.

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 25
john durand wrote:
Super 7's ...... one of my 1st trips to a club race was following a BRG super 7 and
it was like watching a cartoon car, moved left to rt & back so fast hard to see it move.
We also had a bright yellow 7 running a tuned ford cortina engine putting out about 215 hp.
I have some old 8mm film running at the old riverside park in Agawam, now Six Flags.
We used to rent it on sundays for timed lap events. Frank, we also had a Morgan 8 .
I have to get these films digitized, they might be a fun post. Goes back to the original
CT 240Z club. Brings back memories. The 2 7's OFTEN took FTD, especially on tight
courses with short straights.
Love to Z the 7 also, we just love cars.
Jack


Yeah John.....the 7 is good in track or autocross. I can also drive mine in the road but very noisy & dangerous.
It's kinda extreme machine. I have a Honda s2000 engine with Rotrex supercharger 383 rwhp @14psi, just a little over 1100 pound car.
http://tinypic.com/m/i2mwbc/3
http://tinypic.com/m/i3e0hx/3
http://tinypic.com/m/i3e0ht/3

As a matter of fact, my seven used to have a Hayabusa turbocharged and I blew it when the wastegate stuck and the boost went to infinity. I just replaced the engine about 2 years ago.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Ahhhhhhhh...........S 2000 "7". :idea: Ding!

Now I get it.
8)


Attachments:
Honda S2000 engine.jpg
Honda S2000 engine.jpg [ 102.73 KiB | Viewed 6923 times ]

_________________
1970 240Z
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Say, you don't happen to belong to a Lotus club, do you? I'm searching for a special Lotus part.

These are a pair of SU "DU-6" dual-throat carbs. They were popular for Lotus and Conventry Climax engines back when I was a kid (shortly after the last dinosaur died). I've been toying with the idea of mounting two of them on my Z, but I'm having trouble finding any. Burlen (who took over SU) first said they intended to reintroduce these, but then failed to respond to repeated inquiries, so I'm stuck searching for an old pair.

Any ideas?


Attachments:
SU DU-6 Carbs.jpg
SU DU-6 Carbs.jpg [ 172.2 KiB | Viewed 6921 times ]

_________________
1970 240Z
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 25
Frank T wrote:
Say, you don't happen to belong to a Lotus club, do you? I'm searching for a special Lotus part.

These are a pair of SU "DU-6" dual-throat carbs. They were popular for Lotus and Conventry Climax engines back when I was a kid (shortly after the last dinosaur died). I've been toying with the idea of mounting two of them on my Z, but I'm having trouble finding any. Burlen (who took over SU) first said they intended to reintroduce these, but then failed to respond to repeated inquiries, so I'm stuck searching for an old pair.

Any ideas?


Usually vintage racers will hang & save this part forever. Most are not allowed to race if any of these original parts are replaced or modified.
One reason its tough and hard to find original parts specially Coventry Climax parts. I can't race my car to vintage, I can only race in a club racing usually with Porches - ferraris - Lambo - aston martin and many more modern exotic cars.
The SU's are much better than the junk 175 CD Zenith carb that were used to British leyland cars.

The best conventional carb I ever experienced was the KEIHIN FCR FLATSLIDE CARB 40MM (used for superbike racing). You can find them from the old bikes like the Ninja's & Honda CBR's. If you want to go vintage you can keep looking for SU but the closest you can find are just the sidedraft weber (which are common). The keihin carb perhaps the closest response to a fuel injected engine. Using this to 240z, will sound like a dart vader - response is so quick and less problem. I will use this carb in a heartbeat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
I have some 40 Webers but don't really want to use them. I would prefer to find and use some DU6 SUs if they are available anyplace. If you see any, please remember I'm looking for some?

I never considered using the 40mm Keihin carbs! I know the flatslide bike carbs are wonderful. I wonder if they could be made to bolt up to the 240Z manifold?

(I tried to attach a photo of the Keihin carbs, but it came out as large as a roadmap, so I deleted it).

Getting back to your Z, how did you ensure the engine and driveline maintained a straight angle when you made the motor mounts? And what gearbox did you decide to use with the RB?

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 25
"Getting back to your Z, how did you ensure the engine and driveline maintained a straight angle when you made the motor mounts? And what gearbox did you decide to use with the RB?"

If I remember, I bought an engine mount kit + tranny mount- the engine and drive train is pretty much aligned. Besides, it can compensate by the universal joint of the driveshaft to the differential. I think the kit sold by someone named Mckinney or something????
I can"t wait to fire this up....but
Electrical problems will make an old man very old....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Your 2-liter S2000 is making over 3hp per cubic inch. How much do you hope to squeeZe out of the R26?

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 25
Frank T wrote:
Your 2-liter S2000 is making over 3hp per cubic inch. How much do you hope to squeeZe out of the R26?


So, how much is that per ton?

I'm shooting for just a bit over 400/50 RWHP for the RB. I want it civilize not like my 7.
The 7, you have to roll it in 3rd before your reaction can catch up. Even a young kid can't react to this car from 1st & 2nd. You really really need to be professional driver.
It's brutal when Vtec comes along with 14psi of boost. Perhaps if this is turbocharged, it will take a while to boost and its manageable. But I hate turbo heat. On the other hand, the supercharger has linear power all the way. A car as light as the 7, you are looking for trouble or death. I should have left it aspirated. Lesson learn.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
["So, how much is that per ton?"] Nearly 700hp/ton (690+) for the Seven.

If you build your Z for the street, you can expect something in the neighborhood of 2400lbs when it's functional and comfortable for two people. At that weight, even a "modest" 400hp ( :roll: ) would give you a weight/power ratio of 6lbs/hp. If you went completely crazy and boosted the RB to 450hp, your W/P ratio would go to something like 5.3:1. That's each horse pulling only 5.3 pounds of weight (without passengers). That's pretty insane for a street machine.

As a visual comparison, the early 260/289 Cobra was introduced as the first production car in the WORLD to attain a 10:1 weight/power ratio. Each of it's 271 horses had only 10lbs to pull. That gave the car the ability to run 0-60 times of 6 seconds; the very first street car ever able to do so. It broke world records and set industry standards. When they held together and didn't break, they were unbeatable on the road courses. Even Ferrari had their hands full trying to beat the Cobra teams.

Corvette had to abandon their 327 small block and introduce the 396 in order to match the Cobra performance. Then, they all went to 427 power and the Weight/Power ratio dropped a bit lower, altho increased weight didn't allow for the drastic improvement they had hoped for.

Bob Sharp, in 1971, raced his 1970 240Z (HLS30-00006) with 300hp and just over a ton of starting grid weight. That gave him a racing weight/power ratio of 7:1, and altho he raced in C/Production, he routinely beat the A/Production Cobras and Corvettes. He became 6-time SCCA/IMSA world champion racing those cars.
Bob's all-out racers won him repeated championships with a W/P ratio of 7:1. The 427 cars had more power than Bob had, but you have to finish to win, and those nose-heavy hotrods simply flung themselves off the track trying to keep up with the well-balanced Z. Bob also was able to put all his 300hp onto the ground with 16" of rubber contact in the rear, something the over-powered Cobras and Corvettes had much trouble doing.

Your street Z might have a W/P ratio of 5-6 pounds per horsepower ( :shock: ). That would leave each of your horses pulling less than the weight of an 8-pound gallon of milk. Zero-60 times would be measured close to 3 seconds with the proper gearing. That's equal to some $200,000 street Lotus, Lambo or Maserati times.

Controllability and dependability would be your two worst enemies. Even being the professional driver you already are, handling that much power on the street would be a constant challenge. And that's not even considering the idiot drivers around you, or the drunks, or the teenybopper girls on cellphones, or the kids on bikes and skateboards, or the bozo who buzzes around you trying to flex the muscles on his Heavy Chevy. In short, I'd be scared to drive such a beast in traffic. More power to 'ya, bud. It ain't me, babe.

Finally, I'd be worried about how long the engine would last. A cross-country trip in such a car might justify a follow-up parts van. As you already know, as power goes up, dependability goes down. If your 2L RB cranks out 400 or 450hp, that's 3-3.5hp/cubic inch. That's a lot to ask of any engine. (The stock L24 Z engine produced 25hp/cylinder [less than 1-hp per cubic inch]. Bob Sharp's racing Z produced 50hp/cylinder with shaved head, Webers, cam and headers, and they had to rebuild those engines after every 2nd or 3rd race, if they didn't break before that). And the TURBO HEAT would be a horrible concern. I can't imagine getting stuck in summer traffic with a 400hp TT RB26 under the hood. My fuel would vaporiZe before the light changed :lol: .

But that's just me. I guess I'm getting overly-cautious in my old age. Ystrdy I drove my lightly-modified 240Z on a 200 mile road trip and worried myself sick when I realiZed I had left my usual emergency tool kit at home. It was just a last-minute oversight but if anything had quit along the way, I would have been stranded 100 miles from home without spares or tools. I have AAA but it turns my stomach to picture my Z being towed down twisting country backroads.

None of this should deter you from your wild dreams ~ it's your car and your money and I've been yelled at enough on here about trying to be the "Z Police" when someone tries to make a 9-million hp 240Z. I've almost learned to keep my mouth shut and stop worrying about what crazy kid will buy your monster Z when you eventually decide to let it go.

Your RB project will be really interesting to watch (from a safe distance :lol: ) and I'm sure we'll all help you as much as possible along the way.

_________________
1970 240Z


Last edited by Frank T on Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
For the sake of any of our members unfamiliar with the RB26DETT engines, here's what S2KSeven is working with:

* * * * * * * * * *

"The RB26DETT engine is a 2.6L Inline-6 engine manufactured by Nissan, for use primarily in the 1989-2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R. The RB26DETT engine block is made from cast iron, and the cylinder head is made from aluminium. The cylinder head contains 24 valves (4 valves per cylinder), and uses a dual overhead camshaft setup. The intake of the RB26DETT varies from other RB-series motors in that it has six individual throttle bodies instead of a single throttle body. The engine also uses a parallel twin-turbo system. The turbo system is arranged so that the front turbo is powered by the front 3 cylinders, and the rear turbo is powered by the rear 3 cylinders. The RB26DETT uses a pair of T28-type ceramic turbochargers that are set by the wastegates to limit boost pressure to 10 psi, although the Skyline GT-R has a built in boost restrictor to keep boost under 14 psi.

The first 2.6 L RB26DETT featured twin-turbochargers and produced around 280 hp (206 kW) @ 6800 rpm and 260 lb·ft (353 Nm) @ 4400 rpm. The last series of the RB26DETT produced 276 hp (206 kW) @ 6800 rpm and 289 lb·ft (392 Nm) @ 4400 rpm. The reason for this discrepancy is a gentlemen's agreement between Japanese automakers to limit the ADVERTIZED horsepower of any vehicle to 280 PS (276 HP). It is widely known for its strength and extreme power potential. It is not uncommon for 600 hp to be achieved without modification of the engine internals.

With regular maintenance, many of these engines have been driven well beyond the 100,000 mile mark with a few heading toward 200,000 miles. With extreme modification, the RB26 motor is capable of power in excess of 1 megawatt (1,340 hp).

Duration Lift
Camshaft Intake Exhaust Intake Exhaust
RB26DETT 240° 236° 8.58mm 8.28mm
RB26DETT N1 240° 236° 8.58mm 8.28mm

There is a common oiling problem with the pre-1992 R32 RB26 motors, as the surface where the crankshaft meets the oil pump was machined too small, eventually leading to oil pump failure at high rpm. This issue was resolved in later versions of the RB26. Aftermarket performance parts makers also make oil pump extension drives to rectify this problem.

RB26DETT can be found in every R32, R33 and R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R. Besides minor cosmetic updates and ECU fine tunings, the only change was the ball bearing T28 turbochargers found on R34, opposed to journal bearing T28 turbochargers found on R32 and R33 Skyline GT-R".

* * * * * * * * *

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 am
Posts: 25
You know your stuff Frankie !!
It's nice talking to a person who are knowledgeable -- its very easy for me to relate and to learn.

The power to weight ratio you stated was right on the dot. I figured the same value you calculated for my seven & to the RB.
The RB history and spec and capability are right on too. A little modification, RB can pump all the way to 700/800 hp.....some are adventurous to venture over 1,200 hp hahahaha!

Having 400 + for the RB, I already reached the river of no return using the R200 Z differential. Some people said they used
R200 with their V8 Z, I will try my luck if its really true that this diff can hold. If not, I will look for another differential....say from
Infinity or the 350/370z. I'm using the Rb25 5 speed transmission and I used QUAIFE ATB TO THE R200 DIFF. I think the Quaife ATB is a great mod addition to this project. I am hoping that I added strength to the R200. http://quaife.co.uk/quaife-products/qua ... ferential/
Three of my lotuses has a Quaife ATB...i can see & feel the difference a car without LSD or ATB. ATB system is the opposite of LSD the way it functions.

http://shop.quaife.co.uk/differentials?manufacturer=53


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
Yup, I would absolutely recommend investing in a Quaife if you intend to generate all that power. I used to understand LSD differentials, but I've never understood the Quaife mechanism. Talking to several Z racers who use them convinces me they are the only way to go if you are serious about maintaing control of your car. (And I like the lifetime warrantee ~ I's like to see somebody offer that for plate or viscous LSD pumpkins!)

OK, so you've talked all 450 of your horses back to the rear axles, now what will you use for rubber to get it all on the ground?

_________________
1970 240Z


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron









Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
mile200 v1.0.1 designed by Team -Programming forum- .