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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:18 am 
paul.mackin wrote:
Despite the different models, meaning there are a few #1's out there, or were out there, I think being in America, all we should be considering is the HS130 models, makes things more simpler. I say leave the other models to there own countries and let them have there claim of fame.


Paul,
You made this post almost a week ago now, and I see that - somewhat surprisingly - so far nobody has corrected you, or passed comment on what you wrote. So, with respect, I'd like to address that now if I may:

When you wrote "HS130" I'm pretty sure that you must have actually meant HLS30 ( and more specifically in the light of what you wrote after it, HLS30U? ) - yes?

Secondly I'd like to pass comment on your suggestion that "being in America" ( er, you are, but I'm not... ) "..all we should be considering..." are.......

As I wrote in a previous post, if anyone takes an interest in the historical story behind the concept, design, engineering and production of the models of S30-series Z that were delivered to the USA / Canada market, then they will never understand any of it properly unless they take the models for other markets ( particularly the Japanese market ) into account too. Is there any other field of study or interest where the deliberate discounting of valuable reference data and perspective is positively encouraged? I can only think of The Flat Earth Society, or possibly Creationism as examples of such a misguided philosophy.

Of course, if any of us just want to fettle, polish, admire and drive their chosen car then none of this is compulsory. Just enjoy. But if any of us profess to care about, or show an interest in, the story behind the metal - then we would be very well advised to think of the big picture, and take on board that any single variant or market model is closely related to the other market models and variants, and they all influenced the design and engineering in each car. When you look at your car, or the parts on your car, you will never really understand why they are as they are unless you look at how they were on other variants that were designed and engineered at the same time.

It's a very simple and - I think - very positive and democratic message, but it continues to amaze me that it meets such blithe resistance from some parties. It's a funny old world......



Alan T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:38 am 
JIM77Z wrote:
How did Nissan/Datsun set up the line to produce cars for the different markets ? Thanks, Jim


Jim,
I see that nobody has answered your question directly, so I'll have a shot at it:

What you would have seen at Nissan Shatai's Hiratsuka plant would be batches of cars going down snaking production conveyor lines. These batches would be cars of similar spec / model / market variant, and the batches would be sized according to an allocation affected by demand as well as parts availability. Demands for Export and Domestic variants would need to be juggled according to varying circumstances ( there would have been a bit of Tug-O-War between different departments, no doubt ) but bear in mind that certain variants demanded different componentry and even subtle differences in sheetmetal pressings even before the unibody could be welded together and embark on its journey through the system.

I should imagine that once production got into its stride there would be large batches of north American market cars ( probably in same-colour groups ) going through at any one time, but there would have needed to have been batches of Domestic and Export RHD cars going through at regular intervals too.

I hope that goes at least some way to answering your question.

Cheers,
Alan T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:00 am 
Carl Beck wrote:
Nissan rented the Pierre Hotel Ballroom in New York city - for the International Preview of the Datsun 240Z, 22 Oct. 1969.


Carl,
Can I ask where that quote of the "International Preview of the Datsun 240Z, 22 Oct. 1969" comes from? Is that an official title for what went on in the Pierre Hotel?

I think it would be wiser to regard the October 18th 'Press Preview' event at Nissan's Ginza, Tokyo HQ as the real "International Preview" of the 'Datsun 240Z', as an Export spec. model was one of the new S30 range shown to the press at that event. It took place on 18th October 1969, and was of course open to the 'International' press.

Carl Beck wrote:
Interesting that the New York Times report from Tokyo Oct 29, 1969 noted;
Some of the largest crowds gather around Datsun's 240Z Sport, a sports car with a 2.4 liter engine displacement distinguished by a rear mounted airfoil in the American manner. {the writer must have been thinking of the 68 Camero Z28 rear spoiler...cjb} It is produced by Nissan Motor Company.


From film and press photos I've seen from the Nissan stand at the 1969 Tokyo Auto Show, it's quite clear that the biggest crowds were gathered around the orange Fairlady Z432 on the rotating turntable in the middle of the display. This may have escaped the attention of the reporter from the New York Times, perhaps?


Alan T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:51 am 
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Location: Darien, CT
Alan,
If someone were to write a book on this topic I would completely agree that a comprehensive and correct understanding of the world market, Nissan’s strategy and sequence of events surrounding the introduction of the 240Z would be essential. But many of us DO fall into the category of folks that just want to “fettle, polish, admire and drive their chosen car” (I’m not sure what “fettle” means but I plan to look it up later today :D ). While the history of the 240Z interests me, I personally fall into the category of those that really don’t care about the exactness of the topic. You may ask how the President of a Z club could take this attitude? While I have a passion for my 280Z, my 350Z and all things “Z”, I view our club not as a “car” club, but instead as a “people” club. The people that are part of this club mean way more to me than the cars do. Maybe that is a difference between a local club where people get to meet and know each other on a personal level and an organization like the Classic Z Car Club where the interactions appear to be mostly via a computer. I say this not to diminish the importance of the Classic Z Car Club. It has its place and I’m sure is extremely valued by thousands of Z fans around the globe. But our club is so much more than the history of the 240Z. We have members with every model of Z car from 1970 through 2009 and we welcome all types of varied interests. So for example, we have people that only want to autocross or race, people that are hard-core mechanics and restorers, people that know almost nothing about their cars except that they enjoy a weekend cruise in them, people that do limited mechanical work and one or two members that own "trailer queens". All of these people can call our club “home” and we welcome and value them.

This thread has been made so much more interesting by the input of others that have recently joined the discussion. That being said, I just want to emphasize that most of our members (in my opinion) are not hard-core 240Z enthusiasts that care about the exactness of the lineage. I think I speak for most, if not all of our members when I say that we are a casual bunch who admittedly do not fact-check our posts - nor do we want to be part of an organization where we need to do so.

I think it is fair to say that you care far more about the lineage of the 240Z than the vast majority of us do. That doesn’t make either of us less valuable. It’s just a difference that should be noted and may explain some of your frustration with our comments.

Sincerely, Ross

_________________
Ross Williams
1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition 38k Original Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:36 am 
Ross,
Thank you for that. Of course, I was acknowledging that very point when I wrote my "just enjoy" comment. 'Carchaeology' is not a compulsory subject in our informal little university, but if somebody does have an interest in such things I think its only fair that they should have as much balanced and well researched information available to them as possible.

If you were discussing HLS30-00013 ( or the legal definition of when HLS30-00016 was actually sold, ha ha ) with other CTZCC members across a bar room table, or at a car show perhaps, then non-members like me would not be able to 'tune in'. But this is an internet forum ( smile - you're on the internet! ) and - like it or not - this thread will be linked to other forums, and will tend to pop up in search results when people are looking for certain terms. That's why I think it's worth getting stuff right as far as is practically possible ( yes OK - it's nitpicking ), or at least having some kind of exchange on the topic - as befits the definition of the word 'Forum'. That's all I'm trying to do.



Anyway, it's a sunny Friday afternoon here in London, so I'm going to wrap up work early and take a little trip to my garages to do some surreptitious fettling ......... :)

Cheers,
Alan T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 14779
Location: CT
I'm interested in learning which Z cars you own, Alan? You never did mention....

Frank T
Apr/70 240Z
Sep/71 240Z


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:47 am 
Frank T wrote:
You never did mention....


Why would I? Is it some kind of proof - or otherwise - of my bona fides? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:30 am 
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Location: Darien, CT
HS30-H wrote:
Frank T wrote:
You never did mention....


Why would I? Is it some kind of proof - or otherwise - of my bona fides? :lol:


Because we like to hear about people's Z cars! It's as simple as that.

_________________
Ross Williams
1978 280Z Black Pearl Edition 38k Original Miles


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:38 pm
Posts: 3411
Location: rhode island
I stand corrected, sorry, I did mean HLS30. (I should of hit spelling check, I feel like an idiot, how'd I forgot the "L") :roll: What I was speculating is we were talking about HLS30 #13, so just wanted to know more of this model to save confusion before moving on to the other models all at the same time. But, yes, to know of the others is as important as well. I, and I'm shure alot of us here would like to know everything we can about the 240z. I, and I'm shure others here are honored in your presence, and to anyone else that can fulfill our need to know desires. I want to learn as much as I can, basically, I want to know it all. A book is a great idea. I hope this can happen someday. I think all the people with such knowledge should pull together and start the "Universal Z Council" This is history, and very important to Z lovers. Thanks Alan, and can you say hi to the Queen for us......ummmmmmm...think she would knight a Z car. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Clearwater, FL
Mike B wrote:


Carl B wrote:
No - The first of Jan. would be the first date that customers could expect to see one at their local Datsun Dealer.


On your Zhome.com site you indicate that the first ship with all of twenty 240Zs arrived in LA in Jan 1970, so it seems hard to believe that many people would find one at their local dealership by Jan 1. Maybe the writer of the Autoweek article was just being a bit optimistic. It seems logical that dealers would start taking orders as soon as they could in late 1969.

-Mike


Hi Mike:
I've seen the same "expect to see them at the Dealers Jan. 1" in other newspaper articles as well. It would seem that was the plan or goal for delivery of at least one example to each Dealer back in Oct..

That isn't how it worked out by 1 Jan. 70 - - back in Oct as production of 240Z's ramped up from 52 units in Oct., to 388 in Nov....I doubt that they planned on having 240Z production halted in Dec. with only 97 units produced. That may well have held up all deliveries to Dealerships for a couple months. That stoppage in Dec. seems to have carried over into Jan and Feb production numbers as well. It wasn't till March that it seemed that Nissan was able to get back up to full production of export 240Z's.

FWIW,
Carl B.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:53 am 
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Posts: 441
Location: Clearwater, FL
phil280zxt wrote:
Carl,

In your photo of the "project members", is that Mr. K in the middle of the group standing on the passenger side of the Z?

All very interesting history!!
Phil


Hi Phil:
Yes - that is a very young Mr. K :D He was only 60 years old then, and will turn 100 this Sept 15th. We video conference via Skype on occasion - and he is as sharp and humorous as he has always been. Although at times he has to get one of his "kids" to fix the video camera..{his kids are in their 60's now}...

FWIW,
Carl B.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1373
Location: Webster, NY
Ross.Williams wrote:
Alan,
If someone were to write a book on this topic I would completely agree that a comprehensive and correct understanding of the world market, Nissan’s strategy and sequence of events surrounding the introduction of the 240Z would be essential. But many of us DO fall into the category of folks that just want to “fettle, polish, admire and drive their chosen car” (I’m not sure what “fettle” means but I plan to look it up later today :D ). While the history of the 240Z interests me, I personally fall into the category of those that really don’t care about the exactness of the topic. You may ask how the President of a Z club could take this attitude? While I have a passion for my 280Z, my 350Z and all things “Z”, I view our club not as a “car” club, but instead as a “people” club. The people that are part of this club mean way more to me than the cars do. Maybe that is a difference between a local club where people get to meet and know each other on a personal level and an organization like the Classic Z Car Club where the interactions appear to be mostly via a computer. I say this not to diminish the importance of the Classic Z Car Club. It has its place and I’m sure is extremely valued by thousands of Z fans around the globe. But our club is so much more than the history of the 240Z. We have members with every model of Z car from 1970 through 2009 and we welcome all types of varied interests. So for example, we have people that only want to autocross or race, people that are hard-core mechanics and restorers, people that know almost nothing about their cars except that they enjoy a weekend cruise in them, people that do limited mechanical work and one or two members that own "trailer queens". All of these people can call our club “home” and we welcome and value them.

This thread has been made so much more interesting by the input of others that have recently joined the discussion. That being said, I just want to emphasize that most of our members (in my opinion) are not hard-core 240Z enthusiasts that care about the exactness of the lineage. I think I speak for most, if not all of our members when I say that we are a casual bunch who admittedly do not fact-check our posts - nor do we want to be part of an organization where we need to do so.

I think it is fair to say that you care far more about the lineage of the 240Z than the vast majority of us do. That doesn’t make either of us less valuable. It’s just a difference that should be noted and may explain some of your frustration with our comments.

Sincerely, Ross


AMEN! Well said Ross......

_________________
John Taddonio
1970 240Z
1977 530Z
1984 300ZXT
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:38 pm
Posts: 3411
Location: rhode island
Wow Carl, that is so cool, I wonder if we can get him to the show as well. (or a show) I wonder how many people here would be honored to meet the famous Mr. K. I for one. Is it just me, or is the 240 getting more popular and more reconition by the minute, maybe something about the 40th coming up. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Clearwater, FL
Hi Paul:
I seriously doubt that Mr. K's Doctors will allow him to make the trip to America again. The long plane rides involved require a lot of seat time, and are simply too tiring and dangerous to his health. He did attend the ZCCA Annual Convention via Video Telecon in Cleveland, and that may be set up again for Texas.

FWIW,
Carl B.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:36 pm 
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Location: Colchester, Ct
I feel very privledged to have met Mr. K at both the 2003 and 2005 Z conventions. It was an opportunity I will cherish forever.


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