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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:49 pm 
Frank T wrote:
THAT's what's happened here, with car#13. It happened to be found in a dinky little backwater town, in this dinky little state, in the middle of what we lovingly refer to as the Rust Belt. People have been searching for it and speculating about it for decades. Most assumed it had been destroyed and crushed and would never surface. Then, one night at a hotrod show, some stranger walks out of the crowd to admire our Zs and casually admits he's got the earliest VIN 240Z ever sold in the USA. :shock:

Forgive us if we're a bit excited about that!


Hi Frank. I'm also new to this site and came over from classiczcars. I have been watching this thread for awhile. Do you have any further updates on HLS30-00013 and the story behind it? I would love to hear more about it, including seeing any more pictures you may have.

-Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:20 pm 
paul.mackin wrote:
To my understanding, there was the JDM cars, HS30, right hand drive, which also would end up in Australia. Then the American version, HLS30, left hand drive. Then there was the European version, not shure what that vin code is, but to my assumption, came with a 5-speed, no emmisions. Not shure if there was a UK version as well. What I'd like to know, is if there was a #1 for each model, or did each car produced have there own number? ( I would think each car had there own #)


Yes, each distinct prefix type had its own serial number sequence, but the prefix would not identify the specific variant of that prefix type. So, for example, let's think about October 1969 - where the lineup would be the simplest it ever was ( before the addition of numerous extra Japanese market models and sub-variants ) - thus:

*S30-S 'Fairlady Z' ( Japanese market 'Standard' model )
*S30 'Fairlady Z-L' ( Japanese market 'Deluxe' model )
*PS30 'Fairlady Z432' ( Japanese market S20 twin cam engined model )
*PS30-SB 'Fairlady Z432-R' ( Japanese market S20 twin cam engined super-lightweight homologation model )
*HS30 'Datsun 240Z' ( RHD Export models )
*HLS30 'Datsun 240Z' ( LHD Export models )

The S30-S and S30 shared a body serial number sequence, the PS30 and PS30-SB shared a body serial number sequence, the HS30 had its own body serial number sequence, and the HLS30 had its own body serial number sequence. So yes, at the factory you could theoretically have seen 'S30-00001', 'PS30-00001', 'HS30-00001' and 'HLS30-00001' ( even if none of them were ever sold to the public ).

paul.mackin wrote:
Also to what is said, I can see #16 being the first bought or better yet first registered, until proven other wise. Makes sense to me. The lower #'s could have not got delivered yet, or had to get shipped back, maybe Bob got more thn just #6 or other collectors got them and never registered them, etc.....an so on.


One of the reasons I joined this thread was to point out that these statements as to which car was "the earliest known commercial survivor" or 'the first registered' are really difficult to be definitive about. And subjective claims as to this or that car being "the most important" are by their very nature a matter of opinion. But given that these cars were made in Japan, first shown in Japan, and were first put on sale ( ie - possible for a private individual to pay money for and drive away ) in Japan, I find it hard to believe that anyone can claim HLS30-00016 was "the first Z car sold to the public". If the car wasn't in the USA, and in fact probably hadn't got as far as receiving its 'OK' sticker at the factory in Japan, how can it have been sold on 22nd October 1969?

At least people have started to qualify their claims by adding "...in the USA" to them. Looking in from outside north America, that at least seems like an improvement to me.

Alan T.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:33 pm
Posts: 97
Location: The Valley ,CT
How did Nissan/Datsun set up the line to produce cars for the different markets ? Thanks, Jim


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 12444
Location: CT
Mike B ~

Yes, I apologiZe for not responding to yr question directly.

Bryan Little and I met with owner Rick and his wife tonight and discussed #13 some more. Here are a few bits and pieces Rick told us about the car:

He's owned #13 for about 32 yrs. He feels he is the 3rd owner, and bought it from a guy named Dave Nelson (not Rick Nelson's brother) in North Carolina. Nelson claimed he found the car at a salvage yard with some front end damage and, due to the VIN and the low extent of damage, Nelson bought the car rather than see it stripped for parts.

Nelson told Rick he replaced the radiator and repaired the nose of the car. I looked at it and couldn't see that it was anything but original. The underside of the hood (Bonnet, you Brits) has some peeling paint on it but everything is the same Butterscotch color. Nelson said he understood the car had arrived in the USA at a Virginia port, was transported to North Carolina and sold new there. Nelson lost track of Rick soon after he sold the car to him. Several people have contacted Nelson over the years (including NISSAN), asking where the car was. Nobody could locate Rick. The car had about 90K on it when Nelson sold it. Rick drove it sparingly to 100K miles, then stored it on his property for about 30 years. NISSAN located Rick and asked to buy the car many years ago, but Rick declined.

Rick really doesn't have any plans for the car. He knows it's special but never even guessed anybody else knew or cared about it being the earliest VIN sold in the USA. He's never been on the internet for any reason, and when he bought the car there was little interest in old Zs. He has belonged to a few now-defunct Datsun clubs over the years, but has been pretty much out of circulation in the Z community for decades. He figured nobody else cared much about this being the earliest VIN car.

Rick used to be parts manager for Bob Sharp Datsun, so he's been to school on these cars and knows them pretty well. He said a friend alerted him to an advertiZement in a car book 30+ years ago, for an
"Old Z" for sale. Rick called and learned Nelson was selling #13. Rick recogniZed that as being the first VIN listed in all the Datsun service manuals and parts lists and wanted the car. He asked what the top offer had been. Nelson told him something like, "A guy up your way named Bob Sharp has the highest bid right now, at $X" Rick offered "X+1" and took the car. His boss Bob Sharp never knew who got it. :wink:

I've been to the car and noticed a few unusual features. It has no rear defroster wires in the rear hatch, but it has a defroster switch on the console where the other cars have them (why make a switch if you didn't make the defroster?); The thumbscrews on the "breadbox" aircleaner are made by bending sheetmetal over the heads of capscrews; The fuel door latch is the semi-circular half-round tab; The choke control knob has an identical throttle control knob beside it; the interior hood corners are press/folded inwards from two directions. I have a request to return to the car and examine the engine pulleys for a certain variation, too. The remainder of the car looks "normal" ~ like any other 240.

I feel I might have seen and examined this very car in New Bern, North Carolina in the mid/late 1970s. A young guy drove it there and I saw him occasionally. He said it was his dad's car and he would inherit it if he stayed in law school until he graduated. Over the years I had sort of convinced myself that it 'couldn't have been #13 I saw', since I never saw another Z with such a low VIN. I am hoping to hear from Nelson to confirm/deny the 'kid-lawyer' part of it, so I'll know for sure.

I can punch in a few pictures here for your interest, but hope to return to the car and provide you with more soon.

Hope that covers some of what you want to know. Thanks for your interest in this. I find the whole thing fascinating.

Z ya ~
Frank


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File comment: Engine bay looks pretty good; no obvious evidence of prior damage
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File comment: Early hood corners
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File comment: Half-moon fuel door latch
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File comment: Throttle and choke controls seemed like a good idea (cruise control?). Note defroster switch, but no wires in rear hatch glass.
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File comment: Earliest thumbscrews on Breadbox aircleaner; folded sheetmetal pressed over capscrews.
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File comment: Early (earliest!) neoprene clips holding down inspection lids. They broke easily and were cheap to replace. Virtually unobtainable today. (They were PN#63209-E4100!) Note riveted 'lip' on side of lid.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:52 am 
Frank,

Thanks for the additional details and photos. As I mentioned when I joined up, I also have a couple of 1969 production cars, obviously not quite as early as #13 (HLS30-00013). My earliest is #32 (HLS30-00032) and I also have #210 (HLS30-00210) and #237 (HLS30-00237). You are right, the early cars have many unique part variations.

I have those same air cleaner bolts on my #32 (see picture below). However, neither of my later 1969 cars have them, so I think they only came on the first few cars (at least here in the US).

As you noted, the early North American cars did not have a rear defroster, and if you take another look at the picture of the choke plate you posted, you will see that there is a black plastic plug where the defroster switch would go. This is similar to the larger plug next to it, where the parking light switch would go (since North American cars didn't get parking lights).

It also looks like the throttle switch has a regular choke knob on it now. The correct original throttle knob has the opposite shape and the symbol is different than the choke (see the picture from my #32 car below). US cars were not supposed to get these hand throttles, but it appears they were installed on many early cars at the factory. They were supposed to be removed either at the port when they arrived, or by the dealer prior to sale, but a couple may have made it through. All three of my 1969 cars have evidence that they had the throttle installed originally, but they were all removed at some point. As you can see, I reinstalled the hand throttle on #32.

It also appears the hood on #13 has been replaced, probably after the front end accident. Here is a picture of the original hood from #237. Notice the lack of corner braces. 1969 production cars also have a different emissions sticker and the hood release is a flat shape.

Some of the other early part variations include grey plastic map light, heater control panel, radio faceplate and ash tray. These are black on later cars. Early cars also had rubber floor and hatch mats underneath the carpet and quarter and hatch emblems with a solid chrome Z instead of the chrome outlined Z with a painted white sunken area that later emblems have. There are several other items that are unique to the early production cars.

Please post more pictures and details when you get them. Thanks again!

-Mike


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:22 pm
Posts: 441
Location: Clearwater, FL
Frank T wrote:
Total *PRODUCTION* figures for the 1970 car were about 10,000; apparently, Datsun wasn't sure if the car was going to sell well! :lol: :lol:


Hi Frank:
You said continue - In brief it is NOT true that 240Z's produced or even sold in Sept of 1970 are 1971 Model Year 240Z's.

We have Z's registered as 1970 Model Year 240's that were built past Sept. and lots of them registered as 1971 Model Year 240's even though they were built in June of 1970. All of these are what we call Series I cars. Nissan intended/advertised these Series I cars to be sold as 1970 Model Year vehicles originally. However it was not Nissan that actually determined how the Dealerships would promote/sell these vehicles. State's issued titles - and in 1970 Dealers told the State what the Title should say. "Model Year" was one piece of information suppled by the Dealer applying for a new vehicle title.

Also - the Series I cars meet all Federal Safety and Emissions requirements for cars produced prior to March 1971. So there was no Federal Law preventing the Series I cars from being sold as 1971 Model Year vehicle prior to March of 1971. Federal Safety and Emissions standards were constantly changing... So Nissan had to release what they called the "Late Model Year 1971" vehicles, that started production in Jan. 1971... and had to be re-certified. Past March of 1970 - no Series I cars could be sold as 1971 Model Year vehicles because by then - the Federal Laws were in control, even though in an indirect manor.

There was no magic cut off of Sept. for Model Years on titles. Since 1971 the US EPA actually indirectly determines what the "Model Year" is, and the manufacturers have to comply if they want to sell the vehicle within the USA. Basically because the EPA has to report Emissions And Fuel Economy by "Model and Model Year", not by production date.

There is a very long explanation for how all this came about - which has to do with the differences between foreign car manufactures standard practices and US car manufacturers standard practices evolving from the 50's, through the 60's and into the early 70's.

Bottom line is - it is easier to track these cars if you simply group them by Series. From Oct. 1969 into Jan. 1971 Nissan produced aprox 20,500 Series I cars for North America. Very minor cosmetic changes took place in these cars over the months, but for all practical purposes they are one Series. In Jan. of 1971 Nissan introduced what they called "the Late Model Year 1971 Datsun Sport S30" This we usually refer to as the Series II Z's. Just to keep the confusion of 70 vs 71 model year out of the mix. These Series II 240Z's meet or exceeded all EPA and Safety Regulates for cars produced on or after March 1971. These Series II vehicles were all sold and titled as 1971 Datsun 240Z's, nor could they be sold/titled as 1972 Datsun 240Z's even if produced in Spet. of 72.

So a 7K or 10K number applied to the 1970 Datsun 240Z's in the US or even North America - is simply wrong. We simply have no way of knowing how many of the 20,500 Series I cars were titled as 1970 vs 1971, and they have a huge overlap in production dates however they were titled.

The 16,000+ cars "sold" in calendar year 1970 were all Series I cars - and were advertised by Nissan as 1970 Model Year vehicles. All the Nissan/Datsun 1971 Sales and promotional materials show only the Series II cars.

FWIW,
Carl B.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:41 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:32 am
Posts: 42
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Thanks for the pictures, Frank! And thanks for the story. My experience with 26th is similar and then everything changed when I stopped to say hello to some Z owner in a field at Sebring. It think it is your moral duty, Frank, to warn this guy what will happen if he starts to hang out with us!

Thumbs up for Alan's explanation of model numbering.

Thumbs up for Mike's critique. I noticed the same things. The hood is definitely not early. I thought Frank said there was a defroster switch, but I don't see it either.

And thumbs up for Carl's description of the series one / series two jargon.

_________________
Her Majesty the 26th HLS30U-00026
Princess Ziesta HLS30U-00027
Enjoy the Ride


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 12444
Location: CT
Thanks for that, Carl ~ I learn something every time I read you. I consider your site to be the greatest available compilation of Z information on the internet. I wish time would someday (soon) permit you to sit down and write your own book about these cars. We will all benefit from that. We're all being patient, but HURRY UP!!

Somewhere in my archives ("mess") I have some reference books which clearly distinguish the differences among Dat/Nis "Production Years", "Model Years" and "Sales Years" which I feel you will be interested in hearing quotes from. Can't put my hands on them at this moment ("mess") but as soon as they surface I will quote my source. I also used to enjoy learning 'Z-history' from a guy named "Kats" Endo, but haven't seen much from him lately. He is/was a frequent contributor to your great site.

You're absolutely right ~ there was a "grey area" at the end of the 1969-70 12-month production 'year' (during which the 1970 model year 240Z was produced) in which cars from both years were titled as cars from the 'other' year. This has led to some general confusion about the actual 'year' of many Z cars. No biggie for most of us, but some of us (8)) who tend to focus our strongest affections on the "first" 240Zs, try to establish a bit more clarity to the dividing line.

Your good comment about the darned EPA sticking their fingers into the mix from 1971-onward sounds typical!:roll:. Leave it to the US Govt to tell other countries how to designate their export carz. My comments, however, were intended to refer only to the 1969-70 carz. Sorry if I confused anyone.

KEEP THIS UP! GREAT THREAD!
Frank


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:08 am 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Webster, NY
OK, gotta stick my two cents in here!'

Much ado about 1970 vs. 1971 240Zs. The bottom line is that Zs built from 10/69 to 1/71 are realistically "first year" 1970 240Zs. Series one owners who have cars unfortunately titled as as 1971s back in the day may have more explaining to do as to why their car is not "first year". It may not be a big deal to a potential buyer but I bet it will regarding appraisal.

History will, and likewise subsequent values, will be very kind to ALL 240Zs, but I believe that the 10,000 or so cars historically titled as "1970" will always have an edge in the collector market.

I applaud those folks such as you who are keeping the history of the early cars alive. The subtle differences would quickly disappear given the relatively low production and so few still around today.

Carl, I wholeheartedly agree that you should write that book on the 240Z! I guarantee a best seller! Thanks for your dedication to the 240Z, you are the best!

BTW, still loving my 1970 240Z (HLS30-03833, 5/70) for more than 30 years now!

QUESTION: So how many actual "1970" 240Zs do you think are still around today? :?:

_________________
John Taddonio
President, Z Car Club of Rochester NY
1970 Datsun 240Z - 70 ZCAR
1984 Datsun 300ZXT - ZCARNUT
1978 Datsun 280Z 2+2 - KIMZ Z
1972 Datsun 240Z - ORANGE PEEL
zcarnut@hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:40 am 
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Location: Webster, NY
26th-Z wrote:
Hey Carl,

Service Bulletin volume 125, May 1970, 'Introduction of Datsun 240Z Sports Model S30 Series'. The HLS30U was the basic North American export model. It had the air pump emissions equipment. The HLS30UN did not and went to Canada except Ontario which got the HLS30U. The HLS30UV, or sometimes simply described as HLS30V had evaporative emissions equipment. Remember how we used to dicsuss how the early cars didn't have the fuel vapor recovery tank? HLS30U. There is no distinction in the bulletin that only California got the evaporative equipment like we had thought in the past. As you point out, the 'U', 'N' and 'V' don't show up in anything other than the paperwork. And it appears as though the VINs did not distinguish between the emission equipped and non-emission equipped cars. Something for us to hash over breakfast next Sunday!

Another thing you mention, Carl, is the fitment of SU carburetors. The S30 was fitted with Hitachi carburetors, not Skinners Union. In particular, the HLS30U series was fitted with HJG46 carburetors. I believe the S30 models fitted with the L20A engine had HJG38s.


Chris


Interesting! My HLS30-03833, build 5/70, was originally sold in Honolulu, Hawaii. When we restored her two years ago, I discovered that it had no evap. tank in the right rear quarter and the gas tank was without the hose fittings designed to route to the evap. tank. And likewise there is no extra vapor line that goes to the front of the car. It does have the air pump on the engine however.

And no, the car was never messed with, bone stock. Perhaps cars destined for Hawaii had the same specs as Canada?

Carl, Jim??

_________________
John Taddonio
President, Z Car Club of Rochester NY
1970 Datsun 240Z - 70 ZCAR
1984 Datsun 300ZXT - ZCARNUT
1978 Datsun 280Z 2+2 - KIMZ Z
1972 Datsun 240Z - ORANGE PEEL
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:53 pm
Posts: 12444
Location: CT
Odd, John ~ My Apr/'70 was also sold in Hawaii (as you know) and didn't have a kidney tank, either! Still doesn't, after resto.
It DID have the airpump, tho, and an odd thing ~ two sets of timing marks on the front case, one either side of the pulley.

And my "GUESS" about how many 1970 240s might remain today would be in the 3,000-4,000 range. *(WHITE FLAG!! NOBODY SHOOT! OPINION BEING EXPRESSED HERE!)*:shock:

Frank

*(By the way ~ I put a LOT of faith in Carl Beck's great Internet Z Registry [STOP me if I shouldn't, Carl], and I feel we're blessed to have two specific entries there: Car #587 had a build date of December69, and car#588 had a build date of January70. That priceless tidbit of information confirms for me that we're only talking about 587 cars made in 1969 ~ but they were NOT called "1969" Z cars, were they? They were early production 1970 Model Year 240Zs. Monthly production figures were VERY low during the last three months of 1969, and increased only slightly each month. But by April70, several THOUSAND cars were being produced each month. I would like to figure out just how many carz were actually produced for each month, someday. Dat/Nis doesn't seem to have listed that anywhere I have seen yet. Input is welcome, and I expect at least SOMEONE to chime in here telling us his Z is titled as a '1969').


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Posts: 441
Location: Clearwater, FL
zcar70 wrote:
Interesting! My HLS30-03833, build 5/70, was originally sold in Honolulu, Hawaii. When we restored her two years ago, I discovered that it had no evap. tank in the right rear quarter and the gas tank was without the hose fittings designed to route to the evap. tank. And likewise there is no extra vapor line that goes to the front of the car. It does have the air pump on the engine however.

And no, the car was never messed with, bone stock. Perhaps cars destined for Hawaii had the same specs as Canada?

Carl, Jim??


Hi John:
Actually only the first few cars into Canada lacked the Gasoline Vapor Recovery system in 1970 - for that matter it may not have been "required" until much later.. It was just a matter of building one standard model that would fit both US and Canadian markets.

Evaporative Emission Control for gasoline - was only "REQUIRED" in California for cars produced from June 1969 Forward. That would have covered most 1970 Model Year cars..

California however had a major effect on what legislation came out of D.C. Because California had the worse air quality problems, and they had the most experience dealing with it. They also had the most accurately collected data of cause and effect. California also had the largest grants from the Federal Government to study the problem. Everyone in the auto industry realized this - and made forward plans accordingly.

I'm sure that Nissan realized that EEC for gasoline would soon become the standard for the US and no doubt Canada would follow. The Japanese Auto Industry kept a close eye on D.C., maintained a paid Lobby there, and reported everything back to Japan as soon as it happened. They had a pretty effective effort too - they influenced many of our EPA requirements mostly in the area of test procedures and actual specifications of allowable emissions.

At some point between Oct. of 69 and Jan. of 1970 it seems that given the mix of production - it was just less expensive to equip all vehicles coming to North America with EEC for gasoline - - as it turned out, they were right. Evaporative Emission Controls became required for all of the US around July of 1970....

Since Nissan had made the switch they could continue to sell the Series I cars as certified 1971 Model Year Vehicle. Along these same lines - - the elimination of the metal plugs in the steering wheels was also a "Safety Feature" The original steering wheels meet the impact collapse requirements for 1970 but it would not have passed the stricter 1971 standards..

All these Safety Standards evolved in a fairly rapid pace from 1968 though 1975.. Starting with things like seat belts and head restraints, soft interior surfaces to absorb impact, break away window knobs and rear view mirrors, collapsible steering columns and "safety steering wheels", hazard warning lights and side marker lights, etc. etc. were added over time. For 73 Flame Retardant Interior Materials caused some delays in shipments as it was added at the last minute to the legislation...

FWIW,
Carl B.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:22 pm
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Location: Clearwater, FL
Frank T wrote:
*(By the way ~ I put a LOT of faith in Carl Beck's great Internet Z Registry [STOP me if I shouldn't, Carl],


Hi Frank:
STOP - - - !! The Registers and Brief Articles on the Z Car Home Page are just that - Brief presentations of summary information - - people simply looking for info - simply won't read a long winded, yet very detailed explanations - - so most of the articles are really tid bits to wet their appetite for more complete info. that they can research for themselves.

So more info at this point for you and anyone interested:
Actually - as mentioned, the first production cars did not necessarily come out of the factory in perfect sequential order. Somewhat like the L24's going into them - they were not installed in perfect sequential order.

Part of this MAY have been attributed to the common practice in Japan of "modular production". We do not know this for certain because we do not have pictures of the entire plant and assembly lines. Nonetheless - - Industrial Engineers today attribute the development of the modular production process to the manufacture of the Japanese Zero's before and during WW-II. Then after the war it was carried into many different manufacturing plants. In effect, at various points in the production process - units get delivered to "teams" that preform fairly extensive segments of the assembly, then pass it on to other speciality teams for the next increment of work. This proved to be a very effective way to utilize the full production capacity of a plant , as it avoids shutting down a straight forward "assembly line" - and thus shutting down all work along it. It also greatly reduces boredom and mistakes by the employees. Some Industrial Historians say that this is one element of the success of the Japanese Auto Industry.

You can think of it as a broken series of straight line assembly line segments, interrupted by units pulled to the side and worked on by speciality teams, then returned to the next straight line assembly processes you get an idea of what was possible. That model would explain a lot about how things got mixed around... We also have to keep in mind that Z production was taking place on the same lines as Roadster production for the first several months...

Secondly, - we don't know for sure, exactly when the data tags that record "Date Of Manufacture" were stamped nor applied to specific cars. We can only guess that Nissan had good control of their production processes - and that they assured that the U.S. Laws requiring the data be affixed to the car was done in compliance with the laws. So consider the VIN and Date of Manufacture as ordinal data rather than ratio. Nonetheless with a large enough sample size - we should get a fairly clear picture.

For example - lets say it is the first work day of a new Month - but the production worker had four of five data plates already stamped with last months date at the end of the last day, last month - dose he throw them away.. or what the heck, just use them on the next few cars coming through that first day of the new month.

What we do know - because Kats received a picture of the Production Schedules for 69 - take at Nissan Shatia. {Nissan owned 16% of this company in 1969, and subcontracted the assembly process for different models to them. Very much like Budd in Detroit building the little Thunderbirds in the mid 50's}The pictures show a total of 543 export units produced. If you subtract HLS30 00001 though HLS30 00012 you have 531. If you then subtract HS30 00001 through 00003 you have 528 HLS30 produced and released to the public for sale. From all available information, we are pretty sure that HS30 00004 was produced in Jan/Feb time frame. This is based on the known history of the car, it's arrival date in Australia and its original engine serial number.

OK - so far so good. To date we have found 139 of the first 500 VIN's still in existence. Plus we have found 13 VIN's above chassis number 500 that have 69 production dates stamped on their data tags. All of the 13 have production dates of 11 or 12 of 69, they run as high as #1776. So the total accounted for is now 152 of that original 543 or 528 released to the Public.

Nonetheless - #13 should be considered the First Regular Production, HLS30 Datsun 240Z released to the Public for sale. Just the same as that First T-Bird produced, or the First Corvette, of the First Pontiac GTO, the First Mustang, the First VW, the First Porsche.. etc etc. The First unit of a Mass Produced Classic. The huge difference is - only the Datsun 240Z had such a large and lasting impact on the worlds auto industry.

FWIW,
Carl B.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:27 pm 
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Location: CT
Carl ~ you HAVE to write a book.

Thanks for all of that. I suspect no individual has all the information to these cars, but given the huge number of tidbits you've been exposed to over the years, you probably have a better 'feeling' about what happened to them than most of us.

You have to write a book. Plain and simple.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:24 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Webster, NY
Carl, as always your analysis and logic are impeccable!

It makes perfect sense that 00013 was the first car "out there" to the public. We also know the story of 00006, 00007 and 00008. But what of 00001 to 00005 and 00009 to 00012? I am betting that the two Zs sent to the USA for road testing were two of those first 5 cars, but what became of them? Were they returned to Japan and destroyed? There must be some record of those first cars somewhere. Nissan MUST have some record of them.

So it is fair to assume that 00006 is the "oldest 240Z in existence" and 00013 is the "oldest production car in existence". However is it possible that some of these older missing links will still turn up 40 years later?

Let your opinions fly gentlemen!

_________________
John Taddonio
President, Z Car Club of Rochester NY
1970 Datsun 240Z - 70 ZCAR
1984 Datsun 300ZXT - ZCARNUT
1978 Datsun 280Z 2+2 - KIMZ Z
1972 Datsun 240Z - ORANGE PEEL
zcarnut@hotmail.com
FB: Zccr zcarclubofrochester


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