Well Thursday night, upstate NY (Orange County) was hit hard with an ice storm that took out 9000 folks power! So my department with the company gets called out to spot. Which is basically, going from zone to zone looking what kind of crews will be needed to repair down trees, poles and lines. While driving down this road at 12am I spot a Z sitting under two covers. I knock on the door of course because I can see flash lights moving inside the house. A woman comes to the door and tells me it is her dads car and only has 19k on it. Well, I went back the next day and took a few pics. So what is it? 1970 2/70 built 240. Dash --> not cracked....int --> almost perfect! The rear dog leg panels still have the plastic wrapper on them! I was the first to pull up the jute (is that the right term?) on the floor to check what shape it was in. Drives floor has a small spot and looks very very good. Car was last on the road in 77. Basically the car was too small for a family of 5 so was put into storage until last year. The woman I spoke to says she doesn't want to see it rot and would give it to me for very very cheap but her dad who is 78 thinks it is worth lots.....so I made an offer and now we wait. I told her, I know I am going to end up with the car so we went over a few things to keep it from getting in worse shape. Let me know what you think....

Well I'm jelouse, does that help. I hope you get this, and the old man comes to his senses. My father in law is like that, thinks his rusty old cub cadets are worth a fortune. We should start a poll and see what you get it for. I'll say $3,000. Good luck.

Thanks Paul, as you can see I posted the price.... $1000!

VIN is 19xx. Will post the rest once I get it home. Funny thing is the owner says he came up to CT all the time and knows Mr. Sharp and knew Paul N. and was sad when he passed away. The last two Z's I got has had connection to CT and Bob Sharp....maybe some of the clubs luck is rubbing off on me!

Yea, I saw it on another thread. I know I'm half blind, but I didn't see it here, but anyways, sounds like you got a good deal. I hope your planning on doing a full restore, would be nice. Keep the 350 out of it. In my Z heart, 69-72 shouldn't be molested. I have no problem with doing some simple mods, but basically keeping them original. Just my opinion, but whatever makes you happy. I do like your ZED, (I believe that's the term for the 350 conversions,) and plan on doing that to a s130. Good luck again, and good find. I wish I had that dash in my 72. (my only interior flaw.)

Guess I shouldn't tell you the 71 I bought has a crack free dash too. Thanks for the kind words. Honestly, there are no plans for the V8 to go into this car BUT I will either keep it stock or put the L30ET motor I am building in it. I was never really a stock guy but I have come to really like them and this car is pretty early.

Aww, C'MON guys ~ I'm sitting here CRYING while I read this! Clive, if you want to double your money RIGHT NOW, PM me.

PLEASE don't carve up a 1970 car! Next year they will be 40 years old, and there were only about 10,000 of them made and shipped world wide. About 7,000 of them came to the USA, and more than 3/4 of those have to be dead by now. That means you have one of about 2500 remaining 1970 USA (LHD) cars.

You have a classic, Clive. That low VIN makes it very rare and very valuable to lovers of the original Series-1 cars (like me), and the low mileage is incredible. My own 70 was made in April 70 and I cherish it as an 'early' classic Z. Putting a hot engine in that car will spell its death as a classic.

I'll come and buy that car from you this week for twice what you gave. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't carve up a 1970 Z.

Frank

Frank has a very good point. You got that car for a very good price, I was surprised, and I thought I was still underbidding the price, in a sense. With some good hard work, that car could be one of those $20,000 240's. (full restoration of course.) When ever I see a 240 with the 240 emblems on the side by the window, my matablism shoots to the sky, you are so lucky. I'm happy with my 72, but WOW, you got a real classic. I'll give you my z31 for it, it needs that engine anyways, hehehe, I wish, and your probably laughing.

Well I know the car is worth $3k-$4k just due to the fact it is all there and low vin. I base cars I buy on a "part out value" if the car is not running. There is def $3k worth of parts on the car but trust me this one will not get parted out. I made a promise to the previous owners that I will bring the car back to them after I am done. Done? Not sure what that means yet. I know the car can def be a $20k plus if done right. Also due to the fact I sold most of my series one rare parts, there is no way I am going to start buying them back now.

I have some time to think about it.......Hybrid Z vs Stock Z

Well, if your only concern is profit, you've got the ideal item at the ideal time.

On 22Oct2009, the Z car will turn 40yrs old. Only the 1970 cars will be able to boast that, which will turn the world's attention to them. There have to be VERY FEW left by now ~ Datsun only made about 10,000 of them, and the USA got the only 7,000 LHD cars. They are so rare today, we tend to know who owns which VIN numbered cars, and where they are (I can name you the owners, VINS and locations of about six of them, even if you woke me from a deep sleep ~ they're THAT important).

You have found an original, complete very early (Feb70) 240Z. It appears unmolested and unmodified. That car should be fully restored, and NOT modified. If you only want profit, you could advertise it on the WORLD market and true enthusiasts would be fighting eachother over it. Bids of $5000-$10,000 would not surprise me.

If you only want something to butcher up and put a DET or a smallblock into it and overstress the car, PLEASE consider using another year! The 280s were far more plentiful and used the same body shell. Why use a thoroughbred to pull an apple cart? Why destroy a rare classic when the equivalent cost and effort could preserve it for another 20-30 years? A hotrod can be duplicated by ANY later-year 280. The very first 240Z can't be duplicated by ANYTHING but another 1970 car.


These are very special machines, which have become very rare in any form, and are especially scarce in original, unchanged condition.
I think you have to ask yourself if you feel you have the moral RIGHT to destroy a classic 1970 car, complete and original, which is capable of full restoration, and still call yourself an enthusiast? What you could hope to gain is a souped-up street rod, which wouldn't match the performance of your 240-Vette, but which would deny the world of one of the few remaining unmodified icons of automotive history.

You've already got the sexiest, meanest street Z you'll ever drive. Why sacrifice a scarce classic, trying to build another? If you don't want to restore it yourself, at least advertise it to the world in Hemmings, DuPont, Classic Sports Car or Robbins and give the car a chance to be restored to the full beauty it deserves? You could make a ton of profit and a true Z lover would pull the car down to the bare metal and restore it for the world to appreciate for another 3-4 decades.

Spend a few minutes looking at what our members Dan Linquist, Dave Russell and Robin Foote have done to their 1970 cars. Read my article on the 1970 240Z in this Forum. Then ask yourself, "what could be gained by needlessly destroying one of these rare, beautiful, and historically important cars?"

PLEASE sell it to someone who will restore it.

Frank T
HLS30-02807 (Apr70)

Frank, I never said profit was my concern. I was just agreeing that the car as it sit is worth more than $1000 and if restored, yes can be a $15k - $20k car. As for as low number cars please be aware I do know the importance of the car and I do know many of the low vin car owners. I know them by face, name and often speak to them all (69 vin and 70 vin owners).

This statement from you bothers me some:

I think you have to ask yourself if you feel you have the moral RIGHT to destroy a classic 1970 car, complete and original, which is capable of full restoration, and still call yourself an enthusiast?

I am not sure if you are saying to be an enthusiast you have to be a purist if you have an early car?

From my first convention I attend 2 years ago, I had plenty of people say why the hell would I put a Chevy in a Z.....my answer is always...now it is fast and to be different. Often I joke around and say, for every Z crushed and ever early Z modified it sends the value up for all of those who are waiting for Z value to sky rocket.

What do you think this did for early 69 cars? http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.ph ... hlight=248

Like I said, the car is not for sale unless someone makes an offer because they really want the car. I do have time to decide which way I am going with the car. If I do the L30ET motor, I'll keep the original block just in case I want to restore the car 20 years from now. I know these are words on a screen, so please no one take my comments the wrong way. I like the feedback from Frank and if I didn't want feedback I wouldn't have posted for all to see and have some input.

Thanks Frank =)

Clive

frank, i hate to criticize anyone on their opinions, but you are going too far in telling someone what to do with their project! i have seen many, many cars turned into race cars and hotrods thru the years, and i have years, but that is that persons choice and that persons loss or gain. no one should be chastised for making that decision, it is purely a personal choice. there is a beautiful red zcar that has been restored for sale on ebay for months with no takers and the man probably has double in the car than he's asking. maybe a purist should buy that one and i had my 240z on our site for sale and not one reply, maybe a purist should have bought that one. i'm quite sure clive will make the right choice, meaning right choice for him when the time comes. you know, bob sharp had the first zcar in the country and no one got on his ass when he sold it as a race car and not restored, now that's a low numbered car!! mike engelhardt

Hi Mike ~
If I could TELL someone what to do with their 1970 cars, I probably would . I was careful to BEG him not to carve it up. With the bountiful numbers of later model Z cars available, hotrodding an original 1970 car is needless.

And you make a good point about Bob's car #00006 ~ but he received it in damaged condition because it couldn't be sold, and DATSUN intended him to strip it and race it. YES, it was the VERY EARLIEST car in the country (the first), but it wasn't an important car YET because there was no "Z" reputation in the world until BSR and BRE made one for them. And they couldn't have done that without racing those very early 240s.

Even with all the abuse and modifications #00006 has endured, it is still considered the most-important 240z and has been restored (to race trim) as an historically important car.

No, Mike ~ I'm not the "Z Police", and I can't TELL people what to do with their cars. But my own conscience refuses to let me stand silently by and not speak out against the needless destruction of an early Z car.

And I try to live my convictions ~ when I got HLS30-41421 (Sep/71) I asked everyone's opinion if it could possibly be saved or converted to a kit car. I offered to sell it CHEAP to any enthusiast who would swear to restore it. I insisted that the restoration of an early Z was more important than the satisfaction of many dozen "PartZ Vultures", (remember?) Only then did I resort to parting it out, and I refused to make any profit from it. I hate to see the death of any old Z, especially a '70, for any reason.

No, I can't tell Clive or anyone else what to do with a classic '70, but I sure hope to make him think long and hard before cutting it apart to build something LESS IMPORTANT, which could have been built with a less important car. And anyone carving up a 1970 car for a streetrod when other cars are available to use for that, can expect to have me directly in their face (or at least in their ears), speaking out for the preservation of the few 1970 cars we have left.

Thnx for your input!

Frank

O, L30, my mistake. Not so bad. In my opinion, if you modify a classic like this, and it can be put back to original someday, that's one thing. Choppin up and making some funny car is another thing. Now that one you posted is nice, but if put up to an all original 1970 for a vote, I would vote for the original. From the pics, it looks like you just have some body work to do and alot of tlc. Now the 280's are more rigid and have a bigger trans tunnel and weight more than the 240. The 69 was the lightest and they just kept getting more heavy each year. I also think some of the 69 and even 70 parts (minor stuff like dash vents, and such,) wont fit the 71-73 z's. (this is to the best of my knowledge, correct me if I'm wrong.) So is there a chart somewhere's, or link, to know where all the 69-70 240's are? That would be cool. Now I have a chart, web sight for the Bricklin's and it shows where each one is. Now this is one rare car, that should of got more credit.

Oh yeah ~ the Bricklin~ should have been a success, but life's not always fair.

Yes, there is an attempt at registering all the existing Series-1 cars, but it's voluntary. Carl Beck's website (Internet Z Club) has a registry which carries some very important information about these early cars and, as far as I can tell, it is very accurate.

If you type in Keyword "ZHome", you'll get the IZCC link. On the left margin of his homepage, you can select several registries, which will then list the KNOWN cars of the earliest years.

One of the most valuable elements of this attempt has been the confirmed registration of the FINAL car made in 1969 (HLS30-00587), and the FIRST car made in 1970 (HLS30-00588). By this we know just how many cars the factory released for sale btwn Oct69 and 31Dec69.

And yes, there is an article on that Site about Bob Sharp's HLS30-00006.

My only criticism about Carl's site is that it is seldom updated. Any entry takes many weeks to get posted.

Clive, I respectfully recommend you consider registering HLS30-019xx on that Site, if it isn't already there. The cars are listed chronologically by VIN, then by month of release from the factory.

*(NOTE: Some of the info on Carl's Site can appear confusing, because the release date of the cars didn't always occur according to chronological VIN. The VINs were assigned when the chassis was laid, but if the QA inspectors found any flaw in the car, it was returned to the appropriate shop to be repaired. The driver's door Build Plate reflected the month and year the car was actually released from the factory for sale, regardless how much sooner the chassis had been made.
One of our members is the original owner of a car which is CLEARLY a 1970 240Z. Even the VIN falls into sequence for manufacture in July70. But his title and all the car's paperwork ~ INCLUDING THE DOOR BUILD PLATE ~ declare it a 1971 car. For some reason it must have been delayed at the factory until something was made right, then released in 1971, with the declaration that it was a "1971 240Z").

You are correct, I def will not be choppin her up and the L30 motor can be undone if the future if ever I consider putting it back to stock. I love early Z cars but like stated by Mike....big $$$ is dumped into them as resto jobs but you can never get your money back out of it if you would like to get rid of it. I had/have the chance to buy car #95, yes #95 but it would take $30k to save that car...what will it be worth? I can't put money into a car then be afraid to drive it and I am not old enough yet to have a trailer queen or a car I take to the local show and drive on Sundays only.

Like I said, I will keep the block handy in the off case I ever restore it or sell it to someone who would like to do so. Trust me Frank this isn't a fly by night choice to mod this car. Like you said, it is ALL original down to wrapping still on the dog leg trim. It would have to be a really nice cash offer or 510 coupe that would have me part with the car.

Thanks to everyone's input....I hope to have the car at the body shop in a few weeks....so speak quickly if you "want" the car.

Clive